trying to wake up from a 15 yr nap.....
 

I'm new to OSO and would like an honest opinion from some seasoned Formula owners. I've been in the market for a 272 SR1 for a month or so. I'm majorly digging the late '80 s styling and most color combos. I came close to owning an '87 earlier in the month but it was sold out from under me. Anyway, trying to find one in really nice shape, priced right is becoming a hard find and even more so with small blocks. I have located another '87, 300 hour, all original 272 small block boat that looks like is just came out of a time capsule and the color is right as well. A few minor cosmetic issues, cockpit cover and a new rub rail will be near future projects. Otherwise this thing is in really nice shape. No trailer, just the boat.

Here's the catch....it hasn't been in the water in 15 yrs. It was winterized and put in rack storage in 1998 and hasn't seen the light of day until about month ago. I'm no stranger to boats, small block Chevy motors or Alpha drive so I do know that carb rebuilds, fuel system components (tank lines filter etc), all ignition parts, all bellows and lower shift cables, impellers, lubricants, and other wearable parts will need replacement or at the very least, cleaning or servicing. A good squirt of fog oil in every spark plug hole and priming the oil pumps prior to firing the motors would be a good measure as well. Even so, I still do not know the condition of piston rings and cylinder walls from the being in one spot all those years.
I also rapped on all the rear stringers with a large screw driver handle and all sounds solid- no signs of delamination or hollow stringers.

Here's the question. Without hearing those motors run is $12K too much to pay for the boat?

Provided the motors are fine, add a new trailer at $5K and price out all the above necessary parts at approx $1800 and I'm $20K in this thing with tax.
Finally, is this 25 year old boat worth this money?
No flaming please, just an honest gentleman's opinion would be very helpful. Thanks.
Dave......

Nada book
total price $66,200 low $8,050 avg. Retail $9,200
non running w /????
12k seems a bit high - maybe have the seller get it fired up

i think i sent a pm about a 272 baja sorry did'nt notice the frmula

keep looking..if i had the cash http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...ula-312-a.html needs some tlc but?

Depends on what its worth to you, if your in the boat of your dreams for 20k seems reasonable to me, as far as the particular boat 12k is on the high side, you can buy a decent 272 with small blocks for 12-15k running, Ive seen a few recently I'll link em for ya when I find them again,

This will give u a feel,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BEAUT...item35c06b9041

Little high,

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/boa/3317446469.html

What's ironic about the boats you've sent links for is that I've considered all of them. In fact, I was the high bidder in the auction on the first ebay boat you have linked (reserve not met and seller wouldn't respond to my messages to find out what it would take to buy that boat- it was sold before the auction end- IMO). I think I've seen every SR1 on the net and most seem like their priced high. The lower priced boats looked like they been run hard a put away wet one too many times.
Anyway, this boat is the right color and has the right engine package for me. The overall condition of the boat is great. My concerns are with the unknown inside the motors from sitting so long. I am a bit concerned with other issues that may arise in connection with it sitting as well. I was hoping someone else reserected one that had been parked for a decade and could shed some light on any age related issues etc. as a result of sitting. It's just that the damn thing just shows so very little signs of wear everywhere else...makes me want to take the gamble and drop the asking coin.
Thanks.

I've got a pretty nice 272 big block bravo boat for sale for quite a bit less.

Thanks 'lil red. I like those colors but the big motors aren't for me. I would imagine at that money it should sell.

IMO that boat is worth about half of what he is asking. You have to assume you will have to tear down both motors. You probably won't but you never know. I think your list is a worst case but that is the way you HAVE to look at it in order to make sure you don't get burned. Even if the guy got the motors up and running you would have to sea trial the boat in order to put load on them to make sure you don't have oil preasure issues once they get warm and run with a load at high RPM's.

Jon

Thanks Jon. I do have to say the outside of these motors, and everything else in the bilge for that matter, look like they did in '87. No paint peeling, rust,......nothing. Even things like the water pump pulley bolt heads look new...and they aren't. My point here is, if moisture from temp changes etc.didn't attack the outside of anything that never saw oil, then perhaps the insides of the motors are in good order. Just a thought?

fixx
 

if thats the case then you may want to bring a 5/8 socket and a 1/2'' breaker bar and see if he engines turn over by hand but dont turn them too far with out putting oil in the cylinders first..you will also need to drain the fuel tank or even remove it to have it boiled to get all the tarnish out of it..

I agree. The tank will have to come out for cleaning as well as carb rebuilds. Oil each cylinder through plug holes and pull distributors to prime motors by spinning oil pumps with a drill. Then give it some fire and see what happens. I'm thinking this can be done with a portable gas can to temporarily run them.

You really think that boat is worth all that work? On top of the high end of the spectrum price? Take away the fact I have one for sale, that's s lot of work to do to a boat that is priced 4-5000 too high

Perhaps its not. I figured the best way to find out would be to ask the folks who know these boats the best. Yours is nice but I'm really after a 350 Mag boat. Thanks.

no problem, everyone has there own taste. That was my advice even if i didnt have one for sale.
May I ask why you'd prefer a small block alpha boat? I'll sell mine minus power and drives very cheap.

No replacement for displacement.....

With that out of the way......

I was where you are now about ten years ago.....looking for a specific boat.

I flew to ca, Texas, az and nv looking at what I thought was a good opportunity.

Four really important tools accompanied me on each trip....
Bore scope
Pyrometer
Dvm
Compression gauge

Specific to formula, look under the step as you head into the cabin. If you see stains or rot, negotiate down.
Look under the forward berth where the fresh water holding tank is. Sign of leaks or rot, negotiate down.
Look at the area between the settee where the sheeter is. Traditionally, this is another area where you can find a way to reduce the asking price...

Traditional extra items.....
Check one hinge pin. If you cant free it, negotiate down.
Thoroughly inspect the tab rams. If they are the square in the middle two piece, you can't rebuild them. Also look at all four of the indicator cables....making certain they are good.....at the aft connections.

I found my sr-1 in LOTO......and stole it due to all aforementioned
items.....legitimate concerns.

I did get a positive surprise last week......a decade later....
Someone before me swapped heads on my 420's to 308 iron eagles

north jersey. http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/boa/3296760908.html

I've got an interesting one for you, a co-worker has a 272, I believe it's an 89' with 320hp 350 MPI's in it. He swears they are original and that it was custom ordered that way (I didn't think they had MPI's back then). We were just talking last week about putting things away for the winter. Not sure the price he is looking to get for it in the spring, but I think it's lower than what you are talking. I know very little about the boat except from a bit away it always looks super clean and stored on a hoist.

I can ask him about it if you want. It's in S.E. Michigan.

At the very least the valve springs are shot and should be replaced, Seals are most likely shot from again, not being turned over and worked. All the rubber hoses, belts should be replaced even if they look good. As soon as they start to flex is wen the trouble will start. Cock pit vinyl is most likely dried out and will begin to break up when used again. I don't want to bust your bubble since it sounds like you've found the boat you want but anything that's sat for that long is going to need some MAJOR going over and it's what you don't see that will bite you on the ass. $6K sounds like a better starting price and I'm assuming it doesn't come with a trailer.

fixx
 

yes they had it in 89,i forget the name that merc called it but this is what the intake looks like..
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=mercr...80&tx=83&ty=89

Thats a long nap. Valve springs are toast.

Have you ever removed fuel tanks from a boat like these?? Not exactly a sunday afternoon project.

I agree, the valve springs and seals would be replaced immediatly if I had it. Along with a lot of other little parts. Carb's prob need a freshen up too.

Alpha drives? :-(

I'd look for a updated, recently used and ran, big block bravo equipped model, and go boating. Trust me, you won't be saving a ton of money on gas with the small blocks.

or find a big block bravo boat with tired power and put the small blocks of your choice in with drives you don't hafta worry about and resell the 454's as cores...

Pretty cool, never actually seen them before. He said they died pretty quickly since the 454/330 combo was basically the same price or cheaper. Either way it's a neat boat.

I paid 12 5 for mine
 

Hi, I don't know if this helps to know, but I paid 12 5 for my boat. It is a 1988 30' Chaparral Villian with twin 454's/bravo outdrives. And the trailer is a triple axle galvanized trailer
2006, barely used. The motors had approximately 360 hours on them. (not sure though). There was a small leaking problem, well it turned into a BIG LEAKING problem if you look at my post, however that was the only major problem. Actually prior to Labor Day weekend, other than some small issues, ie a bad relay, the motors ran very strong. Hope this helps. Basically not hearing the motors start tells me you have to assume the very worst. But if that is the case, I can come and help you pull em out!!! :) :)
the intereior of my boat was redone and is almost mint. And there isn't one scatch on the hull, mint!
Hopefully this can give you a good comparison!
Good luck!!
The only thing I hate about my boat is the rug color. it's muave. How can a color that is called "muave" be anything other than awful!!! Gotta rip that out for sure!

I can't say that a lot of what is mentioned here hasn't crossed my mind. Some new, and very valid, points here as well.

A quick note on why 350 Mags. PLease don't get me wrong...I am completely aware of and agree with the "no replacement for displacement" theory. My goal here is to get into the 272 SR1 that I wanted and could not afford at 17 and 18 yrs old, when Formula was building these things. I know this boat will handle 3-4s at a 45 mph cruise all day long comfortably. I'm not looking for a 70mph piece. An occasional 60mph shot is good with me. The fuel economy of small blocks is an added benefit of not needing to scream all over the lake-the thought make me smile but it's not what I need. Big motors in performance boats seem to take an rpm beating. They don't like 5500 to 6 grand for too long before they pop. So, considering the hours that most of these late 80's and early 90's big block boats have and not needing the speed, I decided on small blocks. It's ok if some folks don't agree with me on that...

I like the pricing window that all of you have suggested is what I should be paying for this boat, or a 272 SR1 in general. I have been all over the net and craigslist in what seems like just about every city this side of the Rockys (I'm in Cleveland, OH.) only to find prices in the high twenties up to high thirties. There is that occasional high teen boat, even with small block repower, but... damn...these things are rough in condition at best. It really has me baffled. That's why when by complete accident I ran into this boat locally and heard $12K and then was given it's history including the 286 hours, I began to put together a parts/price list.

I am able to do all the necessary work on the boat in a heated building over the winter, including
r&r on the fuel tank. What I DO NOT want to do is get into new motors. I would need to hear these things run before agreeing to buy.
Will the vinyl crack even after a good bath in a conditioner? I don't know. Will motor hoses crack and leak after running it for the first part of the season? I don't know.

The boat is currently on stands in a shop at a marina. I've crawled all over this thing checking most of what has been mentioned earlier in this thread. Someone mentioned "no trailer" and that is correct. $5k puts it on a new aluminum tri-axle. Now we're at $17k and it's not running yet. I'm guessing if the motors fire and run right with the above parts list (not including valve springs and seals on both motors) I would be on the water at about $20K. That still seems like good money as it relates to everything I've seen advertised. If I'm looking in the wrong places then someone PLEASE redirect me! Even the classifieds on this very site show listings to confirm this. Which is why I thought I may have found the right deal.

I'm long winded and I hope I didn't lose ya. I guess I'm still thinkn about it but wouldn't be opposed too look a little more at what's out there either........Thank you.

A very generous offer...thank you.

[QUOTE=motocop;3805028]I can't say that a lot of what is mentioned here hasn't crossed my mind. Some new, and very valid, points here as well.

A quick note on why 350 Mags. PLease don't get me wrong...I am completely aware of and agree with the "no replacement for displacement" theory. My goal here is to get into the 272 SR1 that I wanted and could not afford at 17 and 18 yrs old, when Formula was building these things. I know this boat will handle 3-4s at a 45 mph cruise all day long comfortably. I'm not looking for a 70mph piece. An occasional 60mph shot is good with me. The fuel economy of small blocks is an added benefit of not needing to scream all over the lake-the thought make me smile but it's not what I need. Big motors in performance boats seem to take an rpm beating. They don't like 5500 to 6 grand for too long before they pop. So, considering the hours that most of these late 80's and early 90's big block boats have and not needing the speed, I decided on small blocks. It's ok if some folks don't agree with me on that...

QUOTE]

For starters, a 272 Formula is not gonna be a boat you wanna go on lake Erie and run 3-4's on a regular basis. Formula makes a nice boat, but its still a 27ft boat. I took my old 241 Four Winns Liberator out on lake michigan 1 time. That was a very deep freeboard boat, lake was 3-4' true NOAA forecast seas, and I basically got beat up all day, soaking wet, and couldnt go more than 35mph.

In regards to your big block rpm theory, Im not sure what you mean. A twin 330HP 454 powered 272 Formula, which was the big block option of the day in that boat, is super reliable. A pair of 330hp stock 454's easily go 1000 hours in a boat like that.

In modified big blocks, trust me, here on oso, you will find plenty of guys spinning big blocks to 6000+ RPM, and not ''popping things.''

It seems that you pretty much made up your mind on the small block alpha boat, that is pretty much gonna need a bunch of work put into it, a trailer, and hope the engines and drives are ok. Its your money, if thats what you wanna do, go for it.

Chances are, to remove those fuel tanks, your gonna need to remove about all of the cockpit interior, including the back seat, the floor access panel, and get the chainsaw out to cut out all the foam around them. Then, reinstall and refoam in the tanks. Not sure i'd be looking to do all that.

If there selling for $20k+ our there can you broker mine please for a $5,000 cut?!?!

[QUOTE=MILD THUNDER;3805042]Perhaps I got carried away with the water conditions. The 272 is a true 27+ center line boat and its heavy, as I understand it. So, suppose 35mph in 3-4 foot seas is more appropriate. My point was that it should take some snot at a decent speed without totally beating us up.
Longevity is what I was referring to on the big motors. I understand why they are motors of choice- they haul the mail...as well they should.....it's just that a large number of these boats are 700 + hours and the "0,5,20 hours on rebuilt or repowered motors" makes me nervous as well (who did the work and was it done corerectly). But you are correct in saying that guys out there are doing it...it's just for how long. Makes me a little leary. Small motors are more forgiving in rpm, generally speaking.
Yes the tank is a project, too. Thanks for your input.

[QUOTE=motocop;3805065][QUOTE=MILD THUNDER;3805042]

Longevity is what I was referring to on the big motors. I understand why they are motors of choice- they haul the mail...as well they should.....it's just that a large number of these boats are 700 + hours and the "0,5,20 hours on rebuilt or repowered motors" makes me nervous as well (who did the work and was it done corerectly). But you are correct in saying that guys out there are doing it...it's just for how long. Makes me a little leary. Small motors are more forgiving in rpm, generally speaking.
Yes the tank is a project, too. Thanks for your input.[/QUOTE]

A big block 330HP package isn't a haul the mail package. Its a reliable user friendly cruiser engine.

Im not guessing when I say there are guys out there turning big blocks to 6000rpm with good luck and longevity. Its a fact. Its not 1985 any more. The parts available to us, roller camshafts, excellent quality valve springs, connecting rods, gaskets and fasteners, make reliable 6000+RPM big blocks are reality. 30 years ago it wasnt. Regardless, we arent talking 6000rpm engines for a 272 Formula. We are suggestion 330HP, 365HP Stock mercury 454 engines. Kept at 5000RPM and below, these engines are pretty bulletproof. Maintance is the key. A leaky exhaust riser gasket can kill a 200 hour small block or big block in one run.

Your leary of a big block, based off of your gut feeling. Im leary of a pair of engines that sat for 15 years, based on experiance. Im also leary of Alpha drives in 3-4ft'ers, stagnant fuel in the aluminum tanks, not having a trailer, and what kind of time and money you'll have invested in getting this boat back to reliable running condition. IMO, in this market, if you have 20-25k to spend, you can do alot better than a 50mph 27' boat with alphas. Yes, with stock 260HP 350's, that 272 will be lucky to hit 50MPH unless you have 10 gallons of fuel in it, and a tailwind.

Are those counter rotating alphas or both props turning the same direction?

Not trying to be a jerk, but Ive been on oso for 8 years, and playing with boats a long time. I too started small, and came on here asking questions, seeking answers from guys who had more knowledge than I. I listened to what they had to say, and learned a ton. Seems like lately, nothing but new guys signing up here, and if they dont hear what they want to hear, they rebuttle, do what they wish, and disappear. So why bother even wasting everyones time. You have the answers and made your mind up, go buy the darn thing!

[QUOTE=MILD THUNDER;3805094][QUOTE=motocop;3805065]joe,as you have heard me say many times,you can lead a horse to the water,but you cant make it drink,:lolhit:

I came to this site a little over a year ago looking for information on rebuilding an 89' Baja. The information I got from the guys one this site was great and I'm very a glad I came across the site. When I was searching for a boat it was recommended to me I look for a boat with a big block and a bravo. I followed the advise and one of my friends didn't. My boat had the 454 taken out because it was junk, but did have a good bravo 1. Well I put together a stock big block for not very much money. 454 310hp motor parts are dirt cheap!!!! The boat (89 Baja 235) ran right at 59-60 mph and was dead reliable!!! The other guy had a 350 alpha setup and he had to run the boat on we pins to keep up with my 42-45 cruise. Busting drives and just wearing it out to keep up. After one season I had the bug to go faster. I ported the oval heads bigger valves, little cam and better intake. I got to about 64-65 with that round of modifications.

Point being is I made the right choice by listening to the people on this site who have been doing this a long time. It saved me an upgrade in boats because I could have started out in a 350 alpha setup and really been unhappy with my speed and reliability. After only running my Baja 1.5 seasons I already had the bigger faster boat bug. And that's after redoing my motor earlier this spring for more power. Reading this site has shown me other hulls that I never knew about or even that there were fast or slow hulls. That being said I just picked up my new boat last Monday. A 98' velocity 280 with a 502 mag.

What's helped me is that I got into both the Baja and velocity for very good deals so I'm not upside down on them and can sell them to move up. At 12.5k for a 350 alpha boat that needs work you will either own it a very long time or sell it for a huge loss.

These guys are trying to give good advise. Coming from my own experience they are spot on!!

PS... I had to pull and clean the tank on my Baja and it sucked!!!!!! The positive is I got the boat, interior, trailer and bravo 1 for less then a used bravo 1 so I dealt with bs like cleaning the gas tank. Lol

One more thing. In the 1.5 summers I ran the 454 Baja I put 130-140 hours on the boat. Only thing I did was change oil and put gas in the tank.

Huh? I was just in a 272 in September with stock 260's and it ran 62mph on my GPS (I was looking to buy but timing was bad). I also have one two spots over at my rack building and when my boat (502) was stock our boats were really close, I would BARELY pull on him...61-63 depending on the day. I know things are getting a bit heated here but let's not get all crazy ;)

Other than that I agree with everything you've said. $20k for that boat is a total joke, the 86' I looked at (older style) was so clean you could eat off it and it sold without a trailer for $8k. 650hours on the motors. It was the original owner (or second owner), and rack stored.

I'm assuming since I got no response you aren't any bit interested in the 272 with 350EFI's 320hp I know will be for sale in the springtime? Are you only wanting 350/260's??

The ones I've seen around here topped out at 52-55 and a stock 330 boat ran 64-65

No heat hear. I guess I upset someone...not my intention one bit. I really do appreciate all the info here...and I'm taking it all in.

Actually, I am very interested in the EFI boat. I was trying to respond to everyone and get ready for work...ran short on time. Please PM me the info or shoot a number to me and I'll make the call.
I can't thank everyone enough. This gives me a great deal to think about.

Apparently our water is faster ;) don't know what to say, I was on the boat. I know the one with 350/320's I'm reffering to runs just at 64-65mph gps or that's what the guys says.