Measures To Take When Having Major Mechanical Work Done
 

I recently had a multitude of issues with some motors I had rebuilt/refreshed (story in the beware section). It was an extremely disappointing, frustrating and expensive experience that I wouldn’t want anyone else to experience. Though I have read countless threads over the years about motor build nightmares I was stupid enough to allow it to happen to me. It was very much a learning experience and here are some things that I would do if I had the ability to go back and do it all over again.

• Get absolutely everything in writing (I don’t care if you are doing business with your brother, it is imperative).
• Get detailed bid/quotes of work to be performed (the more specific the better such as specific part numbers etc.)
• Request that your invoices are detailed (part numbers etc.)
• Do a follow up to phone and in person conversations with an email.
• Get a copy of repair facility/engine builder product liability insurance information.
• Choose a builder/repair facility that has documented years of experience.
• Get referrals (not just someone that had a sea pump changed but someone that had comparable service to that which you are requesting and has put documented hours on the product).
• Try to get a warranty in hours rather than days (days is a such a skewed measuring device because many people only put 20 hrs on their boat in an entire year and would be lucky to get 10 hrs in a 60-90 day period).
• Inquire about the company policy with respect to “part failures” on new parts (does the repair facility go after the manufacturer of the parts or are you fiscally just out of luck).
• Inquire about what specifically is sub-contracted out and who the sub-contractor is.
• Make sure that rotating assemblies are balanced and not just slapped back together.
• If problems with your product occur be present for inspection and/or tear down (if you don’t know what you are looking at bring someone with you that does).
• If possible video tape the tear down.
• Do a case net search of the company for previous litigation.
• Do an internet search of the company (Angie’s List, Better Business Bureau, Secretary Of State etc).



If anyone else has anything to add from their experiences post away. The more documentation you have the better. Ultimately it protects the repair facility/engine builder and the customer. The more documentation you have the less room you have for assumptions. I wish I would have read something like this before I decided to have my work done.

Tried to edit and deleted the whole message by mistake.

well... this is all good research and paperwork but in the end unless you are standing there watching it go together, you have no more assurances of quality work than if you did none of the above. certainly some of what you suggest makes sense and is normal due dilligence but if you had walked into my shop and asked for a copy of my liability insurance i would have smiled and thrown you out.

beyond that you left out the only ways to really get a handle on whats going on... when the motor gets done, it goes on the dyno and gets run and broken in and the data confirms the performance target. then the oil comes out and the filter cut open and a leak down done... if you want to be anal, the oil goes out for analysis and that base line info is retained for comparison for the 10 hour service.
THEN the motor goes in the boat and EVERYBODY does a sea trial... that way EVERYBODY knows the temps and pressures and rigging are correct...

THEN you make the final payment and your warranty clock starts running.

now... i never built customer boat motors but whether its hours or days is not a difficult call . would you call someone two years after the fact and say " gee.. remember that motor you built two years ago ? well it blew up the other day at only 10 hours... ill be right over to warranty it..." and ultimately you know as well as i that you could fly that motor and spin it 9000 or overheat that motor or fry it running it on the hose or 40 other things that would kill it irrespective of how it was built... so in the end, the warranty is going to be a function of confirming it was good when it left the building...

if you run a motor for 60 hours trouble free and then call me up and say... " gee it blew up last weekend because you assembled wrong" i am going to , once again, throw you out. if a motor is assembled wrong you find out right away... inside of 2 or 3 hours...

it was like that on all the race car motors i did and there is no reason at all why it isn't the same here. the race motors all had data aquisition... so if there was a failure that didn't make any sense, you could see the immediate history of temps and pressures and loads and revs...

in the real world bad assembly or bad concept gives you clues and symptoms right away. big clearences = bad oil pressure. small clearences= high oil pressure and temps and metal in the filter bad bores = bad leak down bad valve job = bad leak down etc etc...

and you determine all that on the dyno and in the first couple of hours. if thats all good and you get to 10 or 20 hours trouble free then it was assembled correctly.

factory defective components ... REALLY ? like what ?
a defective oil pump ? really ? a defective rod or piston... REALLY ? maybe one in a million. and that stuff mostly gets caught in pre assembly inspection.

now... in your specific case they clearly screwed up somehow . no question about it. your bookie should have been able to rebuild a pair of 502's in your backyard and had them run reliably... so you certainly have a beef with them... but.. having said that... IF you had seen them run on the dyno and IF they had been present for the sea trials and then filters cut and leakdowns done before acceptance, maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion.

yup

Not a defective part, but simply the wrong part. Without going into specifics, the rods were not designed for the HP in my build. The builder didn’t realize this and the rod manufacturer proved it with the rod specs. End result was a broken rod after 2 years and 70hrs. Trashed everything to the tune of 20 grand. Whose fault is that? I will say I paid more than 15K of that bill. Can’t say it was an enjoyable experience.

well... thats a good question but the answer is simple...

" whose was responsible for the design and concept ? "

if it was HIS job to design the package and spec the components then it is his responsibility but by the same token, the statute of limitations on this sort of thing has to be reasonable. two years ? 70 hours ? 35 hours a year ? 5 hours a month ( assuming nominal season) ? did you expect cradle to grave responsibility ? thats not reasonable or fair.

IF... and this is a real question... IF you can legitimately prove that he was responsible for the selection of the rod and IF you can prove that that selection was wrong, then , on paper , yes... you have a complaint regardless of the elapsed time ...but in the real world, after two years it would be a very hard sell. my guess would be that , if asked, you will both say it was the other guy that chose the rods... " i told him he needed better rods but he didn't want to spend the money " vs " i told him that some day i was going to make 1000 hp and i wanted it to be ready for that "

in your case , what are we talking here ? did he put some stock rod in a 1000 hp blower motor or something ? and who made the decision ?

1200+ HP your making..?

If that is true, I would say getting 70 hrs is GOOD. That is a ton of power for any rod, or rotating assembly. **** I believe the new Merc 1350 (by %, your close) have to be rebuilt every 50 hrs.

Dont feel to bad, Top fuel drag cars get towarn down after 1/4 mile / maybe 10 seconds of run time :lolhit: . But i guess they are 3000+ hp...:angry-smiley-038:

It was his design. My input was nothing more than desired HP and there really was no preset spending limit. He admitted the error. There’s no argument there. The problem was between him and the manufacturer, but I still got to pay the bill except for the rods and some labor. That was 5 seasons ago and 120hrs. The engine is still perfect. I don’t beat on it, but maybe 2 high speed passes per year. The builder and I expected the bottom end to be solid for 300+hrs with valves at 125-150hrs. Thus far it has delivered. The wrong rod is what cost me. They were Oliver rods and they should have been the max series designed for 1000+HP. I’m planning to build my own engines now and will pay for the mistakes I make. LOL

That said, I would still let him build engines for me if I needed one.

fixx
 

the major thing that people need to do if they really want to keep on top of this sport is to take a mechanical class at a school near them so they know what makes a engine tick...anyone can throw money at something but that dont make it rite...

well... i'm afraid that if i had done that and it was that cut and dried then i would have written the check to replace the motor.
thats the cost of doing business when you screw up that badly.
i only had one big ticket error like that in my career when i was careless and made an assembly error ... $ 8500 - 1979 dollars...

well good for you for learning and doing the work. enjoy the ride. there is nothing like the satisfaction of hearing them run and feeling them perform knowing its your own work...

Dyno is best 1000$ you can spend on an engine you have rebuilt.

BINGO

Thats why we invested in something that will never pay for itself, but what a nice tool to have.

becuase it is the closest thing to insurance you are going to get.

everbody screws up and everybody makes a mistake... so... what better time to find out if thats the case then before you introduce a lot of varibles and clouded liabilities than BEFORE it goes in the boat ? ideally you pick a shop that has their OWN dyno so it doesn't cost you more ... but even if you have to spend the money how much better can it get for 500 or whatever it costs you ?
you get the motor completely set up and tuned...
you get it fully broken in and ready to go
you get to see all the temps and pressures
you get to confirm the performace promises
everybody sees it start and run and not make noise or blow up after a coupe of hours
you get to do a leakdown when its done to make sure everything is good up top and you get to cut open the filter to make sure everything is good down below..

you leave the facility with a " plug and play " deal. no screwing around with any ancillaries or systems . hook up the oil lines, ignition and fuel and drive it away. no babying it for the first 4 hours because the breakin procedure is already done under controlled conditions...

none of this... " gee we started it and it had no oil pressure " or gee we tried to time it and now all the pistons are burned " or the usual litany of complaints that occur when a motor gets installed from zero time by the end user.

this discussion started about warrantees... now... with that in mind , do a quick search... how many threads are there here that start with " i installed my new motor and it has no oil pressure " only to find out that they have the oil lines backwards... or how many threads that start with... " does anyone know what these timing marks mean ?"

now... when their NEXT thread starts with... " MY AHOLE engine builder won't warantee my motor..."

thats why serious builders have their own dyno and those that don't, for whatever reason, use a service... and why the vast majority of self inflicted issues that surface here could be eliminated before the motor ever got near the boat.

This post really tells it like it is. To not dyno an engine after a complete rebuild is not using good common sense. It protects the builder and the customer.

Well based on all this horror I'll keep my girls just the way they are,, Ok maybe just a little tweeking..:whistle:

Im always tweaking, went by today just to give it the once over even if it is shrink-wrapped::fish::fish::fish::fish:.