Here we go! blew up a blower motor
 

Stock 454 with small b&m blowers. Got in the boost for 30 second and when I let of she was knocking. Long story short I pulled her out since top end was fine. Dropped her off at my new engine builder guy. There thinking rod bearings by the gander at it. So probably need new rotating assembly. They use eagles rotating kits. I have 049 stock heads. I want to go naturally aspirated work the 049 heads bigger valves etc. Eagle rotating assembly all forged with else brick marine intake and reuse my holley 850 carbs. Bump up the compression and call marine kinetics for a cam. What do you all think?

Sounds like a safe plan - and then you can change your screen name to Reliable Guy

Which number or numbers were the issue? Blowers don't make engines blow up unless the tune is way off but they will bring out flaws faster...

^^^^^^^^^^What he said. Don't blame the blowers for either a bad tune, or assembly issues. If you are using a 174 blower, than I don't blame you for getting rid of it. That's a great blower for a small block or a 454 RV engine.

If you have to buy a NEW rotating assembly, it would only make sense to go with a 4.25 stroke kit, as it really is no more money than a 4'' stroke kit.

Not doubting your builder, however eagle stuff needs to be gone over and not taken for granted. Their forgings are comparable to most all oversees 4340, however they often have tons of machining issues with tolerances being off. For this reason, I just said f it, and went with Callies Compstar. The extra money I might have given the machinist to make it right was money well spent on a better final product IMO. Not saying eagle is crap, just make sure your guy is thorough. Plenty of guys run their product and are happy.

Is this a new engine with an Eagle crank? Or, he wants to put a new Eagle crank in the new build?

100% correct about eagle tolerances

Sounds like he wants to do eagle rods/crank as his builder prefers said brand.

The Compstar is a nice piece for the money. A Chinese crank, but finished here.

Scat also makes a nice crank for the money at a price point comparable to eagle. If I was buying a Chinese crank today, it probably be the Scat.

Ya know I was going to run a s**t bottom end until their sales/tech dept irritated me by badmouthing Fluidampr, and blaming them for breaking crankshafts etc etc, albeit with ZERO data. They even state other "elastomeric dampers" are a no no. It's on their website. If you do some research, you will find they have a vested interest in a certain damper brand. Weird huh?! I've done quite a bit of research, and have run Fluidampr prior, with excellent results. This approach they seem to have, put a bad taste in my mouth.

Also, Callies is taking essentially the same import 4340 forging(however they state theirs is certified AISI 4340) and machining it on arguably some of the best equipment in the business. Didn't hear them state anything beyond "run a good SFI damper". The Compstar rods make my other rods look pretty pathetic as well.. But as with anything, we all have our preferences. I looked at the 100% USA cranks, and for under 1,000hp I think they are a huge waste of money. No reason to overkill something to that degree, then try to defend it with "purchasing patriotism". Again my opinion.

Which rods are you comparing the compstar to? I agree with most of what you said. As far as their opinion on the balancer choice , I personally wouldn't care what their sales dept had to say on that. I'd choose my own brand of balancer irregardless. I agree with you on the fluidamper.

What I like about scat is two things. Their price , and most importantly I know of many guys who have ran them with a substantial amount of power with good results. Scat is no fly by night company with prehistoric machines. Considering they supply general motors and daimler Chrysler with crankshafts and many NHRA teams.

Either way it's all good stuff, many years ago the only option you had for a halfway affordable forged crank was going to the chevy dealer or browsing swap meets . Which the chevy forged are still a pretty stout crank! I'd go with either one before I purchased an eagle. I've got a supplier here who if you purchase an eagle crank and it's not within spec, they will take it back. They can get me any of the mentioned cranks but they can do the best pricing on eagle since they do a big volume with them. Some of their prices are very attractive esp on eagle rods

The rods I had before switching to Callies were the Scat procomp I beams. Stout rod but the finish is much nicer on the Conpstars (H Beams) and the compstar rods come standard with the superior L-19 rod bolt. To be fair the callies rods are twice as expensive.

I concur, scat makes a good product, however blaming a damper for broken crankshafts(in the manner they portrait) is absurd. None of these companies are perfect. A friend of mine recently broke a really nice USA billet rod (company will remain nameless, as this isn't bashing any particular company). S**t happens. However as you know, most rods don't snap or bend. Something else happens and the rod suffers the brunt of said forces.

People overlook rod bolts, when they are absolutely the most stressed part of the connecting rod. I never use to stretch rod bolts before. After reading some articles on the subject , I will never use a torque wrench again.

Funny you mention eagle rods. I had some H beams from eagle with L-19 rod bolts and surprisingly they were very close out of the box. IMO pretty good for the price. However, as long as they are completely checked and measured. Seems like years back they didn't have these QC issues.

I was told to stay away from L19 bolts in anything but a all out race engine, and especially in a marine engine. Apparently while their are of a stronger material, if subjected to any acid, moisture, corrosion will occur. They are so finicky you're not even supposed to handle them without gloves on. For most applications, the ARP2000 bolt is much more user friendly, and plenty strong. I have ARP2000 bolts in my engines. Wonder if any of the pro's here use the L19's in marine engines?

Most GM and aftermarket "I" beam style rods, had a much rougher finish than an H beam rod, from a visual standpoint.

Regarding the L-19's, I have recently spoken with both ARP and CALLIES. They state that the main contamination issue is when the bolts are actually being made. Substantial exposure to water can damage them, however moisture encountered inside of any internal combustion engine does not in any way compromise the integrity of the L-19's. They use to ship them with gloves before finding out that it is of little consequence. The 19's are substantially stronger than the 2000 series. They did mention keeping them oiled when stored to stave off corrosion as I recall.

If there were issues, Callies wouldn't be using them over the 2000 series, which is a monster of a rod bolt. The issues just aren't there regarding the 19's and contamination.

If any engine builders here have anything to the contrary, with all due respect, please don't post opinions. Data is all that matters and is relevant. If ARP says they are good to go, and in our conversations explain why, I'm good with that. I tend to trust an engineer regarding his product and what it can and cannot do. Kinda like when I asked an engine builder about oil a long time ago... Gotta ask field specific questions to those that have the data. In that case a tribologist.

Good read on rod bolts
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407393

Some parts, yes. However, said individual is not qualified to speak on rod bolts. He is the same guy that made the I beam vs H Beam argument. It's well known and any manufacturer will back up, that just because it's an H beam or I beam, doesn't necessarily make it more superior/stronger. The idea that "any" moisture will render a L-19 useless is absurd. If that were true, special instructions and gloves would come with the bolts as they use to be supplied.

I'm completely open to new information and don't mind being proven wrong, just strange that two sources seemed to chalk up many of the horror stories as just that.

I was having a lengthy conversation yesterday with a friend of mine and he informed me that Callies was getting out of the junk buisness.

L-19 - 2000, certified - not certified, Chinese - American, $600 damper -$50. I personally have a thing about buying Chinese stuff but that's me. I don't care if you spend 30k in parts or 5k if the clearances aren't right and you don't have a good oil pan then you don't stand a chance. I don't understand why in the world someone would spend thousands on a custom motor and re-use the stock oil pan. I just don't get it. I'd have to say inadequate oil systems has got to be the number one killer of all the blown up stuff I've seen...

Only going off information from what I've been told by some pro engine builders, an ARP rep at a trade show, and their website, regarding my initial statement about the L19 bolt. If its "absurd", that the bolt can be contaminated by moisture, ARP should remove that stipulation from their website. It probably misleading to a lot of engine builders out there. Im sure they would be skipping the ARP2000 bolt and going right to the L19 in all their builds if there were no real drawbacks to the L19.

ARP2000®: ARP2000 is an alloy steel that can be safely heat treated to a higher level, producing a greater strength material than 8740. While 8740 and ARP2000 share similar characteristics – ARP2000 is capable of achieving a clamp load at 220,000 psi. ARP2000 is used widely in short track and drag racing as an up-grade from 8740 chrome moly in both steel and aluminum rods. Stress corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement are typically not a problem, providing care is taken during installation.

L19: This is a premium steel that is processed to deliver superior strength and fatigue properties. L19 is a very high strength material compared to 8740 and ARP2000 and is capable of delivering a clamp load at 260,000 psi. It is primarily used in short track and drag racing applications where inertia loads exceed the clamping capability of ARP2000. Like most high strength, quench and temper steels – L19 requires special care during manufacturing to avoid hydrogen embrittlement. This material is easily contaminated and subject to stress corrosion. It must be kept well-oiled and not exposed to moisture.

When looking at eagle and scat cranks side by side it's easy to tell which one is which. The eagle has nicely finished counterweights, and the scat has nicely finished journals. I'll go with the better journals lol.

i have used scat and eagle crankshafts and i have found the journal tolerance much closer on the scat cranks,from an assembler,s viewpoint i like the scat better because of this.

I don't get it either. Reason I purchased a Dan Olson 14 quart offshore pan that I will only run 12 quarts in.

Unless you heard it straight from callies that they intend/plan on discontinuing oversees products, I highly doubt it. How many people building sub 1,000hp motors can justify a $1,500 crank? Our economy won't support that, so if they opt to change their business in that way, GOOD LUCK. It's a world economy and the Chinese have been casting/forging longer than anyone. I'm not denying some of their stuff is subpar, however quite a bit of their 4340 is quality. It's the machining that leaves a lot to be desired. Just because it's made in EEEEEMERICA, doesn't mean it's of quality. Plenty of lazy slobs producing crap in this country and the consumer is blinded by the waving flag sticker.

To update this: While speaking with callies this morning for the second time, it was confirmed they are discontinuing the Compstar I Beam rods, seeing that for around $150 more you can get a USA rod, so it makes sense. They stated that "Compstar is here to stay". Take it for what it's worth I guess. Also stated that they DO NOT have any issues with L-19's and that if it were an issue they would either 1. Supply latex gloves 2. Go away from such a bolt if it had all these supposed issues.

Confirmed it twice with callies who uses the L-19 in all of their BBC rods in this series. Oh the Internet....

Well, seeing the thread about the rod bolts makes me want to set up a 4900 RPM rev limiter for my 4.25 stroker with the Eagle crank and rods and the 8740 rod bolts. At least I went through the trouble of using a stretch gauge on them. ;)

Lol. If callies backs it that's the final word in my book. My machinist also does quite a few circle track and marine engines and he laughed when the topic arose. If the 2000 series were the appropriate bolt, callies would utilize it in their BBC rods. As assumed, the L-19 is a better bolt.

Good choice stretching the bolts. I never use to do this, however a guy I know that owns Forrester Racing engines here in Arizona converted me.

It was interesting that ARP suggested 63 ft lbs with their lube if using a torque wrench, but to get the stretch figure they called for I had to go considerably higher than that. I called them about it because I was concerned, but they told me not to worry about it and to go by the stretch figure rather than the torque. They used a conservative torque figure to try to keep people from overstretching their rod bolts with improper procedures and old yard sale torque wrenches that had not been calibrated since the dawn of man.

How many have actually seen a rod bolt fail? I know we don't use them in a marine deal but in an aluminum rod deal you just have aluminum threads supporting the whole rod. I think it's really a waste of a good argument really.

Probably not that common, but I have to wonder if some of the spun bearings are actually from rod bolts stretching and starting to fail, which could lead to lack of crush on the bearing. Which could lead to a spun bearing.

You're fine. I'd have no problem using that rod/bolt combo with 800HP all day. Your typical H beam rating for a BBC is

800HP with 8740 bolts
1200HP with ARP2000
1500HP with L19

I take that with a grain of salt though, because there are things like stroke, piston weight, rpm, that factor in. But generally speaking, for a N/A 496 Stroker, you have PLENTY of connecting rod with the 8740 bolt. However, if I was building a 1500HP engine, I wouldn't be using a eagle, scat, or compstar rod. I'd want some Carillos in there.

Manley has been providing H beam rods for many years. I believe they recently dropped the L19 option from their h beam rods. Now you can only get 8740 or, upgrade to the 2000 series. If you get their pro series rods, they come with arp2000 standard, and ARP Custom Age 625 as an option on certain bbc rods, such as the beefy marine duty I beam rod that cost 1500+ a set.

:Thanks MT, I appreciate the input. Of course, I also have the limitation of a cast steel crank instead of forged, but this is far from a max effort build. If I had the whole thing to do over again, I certainly would have gone forged from the outset, but for what I will be doing with this motor, I should be fine.

Planning to hear it roar to life this weekend! :ernaehrung004:

BTW, is that girl in your avitar surfing OSO? ;)

Budman, am I putting things together right, that you are using Eagle cast stroker cranks?

I'm going to ask him about running a scat rotating assembly. Will my stock 8 at oil pan be ok? The only fuel I could get around me non ethanol is 90 octane. What compression should I stick with with those 049 heads

Stock pan and oil system good for a stock motor after that its time for some better parts.

yep - single engine.

This is twin engine boat

Sorry TB, looks like I walked all over your post. :hijack: Hopefully some of the info discussed with my build will be helpful for yours. If you are running a supercharged application where there could be more blowby to mess with oil drainback to the pan, along with a stroker crank, I would recommend upgrading to a 10 quart or larger pan. There is a lot of discussion on this forum about oiling systems, heads, cams, etc. There was a poster who goes by "ArcticFriends" who put together an epic thread about the ins and outs of properly setting up the oiling system for a high power marine engine. I would recommend searching for it. You als mentioned that you were talking to Bob M about cam design - he would also probably be a good guy to ask about other aspects of your build, like heads, valvetrain, etc. Good luck with it!