Ouch! I'm new to the forum take it easy on me. LOL. You bought 2 sets of used leaking intercooler cores off ebay. We felt bad for you since you got duped twice. We cannot warranty the 4 cores ($4800 worth) because you didn't purchase any of them them new, do have any history on them, nor do you know who bought them or how old they are. We still chose to try to help out and offered $200 off each core ($400 off). I also mentioned we were temporarily out of stock on the cores but offered to "rush" a set to you. Hardin Marine is a great company. There website says there is only a "90 day warranty" on parts and only if installed by a professional marine installer. Our one year warranty is one of the longest in the industry and should be considered on such a high wear item.

what cid are your engines?

Hey TBS -
Most of us will be psyched your here. No doubt.

572 cid

Yes. But the sole purpose of an intercooler is to reduce the intake air temperature to a safe level. If your not safe without the intercooler , and add the intercooler, and see a big reduction in temps, it's a win. However , in that case , should the water line, strainer , etc get clogged or plugged, good chance you will detonate. If you don't routinely check the intercooler for leaks, you can hurt the engine.

It may seem that I am anti intercooler on a roots deal, but I'm not. Although I think for many years, people have had a false sense of security because they installed them, without actually recording air intake temps. Guys tend to think their air charge is like juneau Alaska river water frigid, but that's not the case when your at loto and pumping 90 degree lake water thru the core. Also, a dyno pull isn't always the same as running at wot for miles. Everything heats up at that point.

I'll have some air temp data with a blower shop intercooler under a 10-71 Littlefield next week making 10psi on the dyno to compare to the non intercooled version of a 10-71 making 8psi. Should be interesting , although we will probably be putting 60 degree tap water thru the core , which should help a tad more than 80-90 deg water.

Maybe Joe from the blower shop can provide us with some data on this stuff too. Glad to see him here. The blower shop makes some awesome stuff that's for sure. Love their billet blowers!

$400 dollars off (TBS wasn`t obligated at all to do anything) and you`re complaining?? What did you want free ones shipped next day? :rolleyes:

Personally I see 135* and no more than 150* on my intake temp gauge,(3.4% underdriven, 6psi) unless someone has some proof that I could drop that significantly I just don`t see the expense and trouble of intercoolers being worth it on my set up.

dan,there is no doubt that an innercooler would drop your intake charge temp.knowing what your air temp is now is a big plus.if a innercooler droped your temp to 110 deg you could increase the boost until your temp reached a max of 150 .more power&still running the same temp as you currently are .the question is ,is it worth the extra cost?this is a very expensive game we play!

I have three pretty ignorant questions, but I have thick skin, so here goes:

1. What is the procedure to check for leaks in the cooler while in the boat? If you had a leak, wouldn't the water travel directly into the cylinder / head / valve, wherever?

2. What PSI (water pressure) were you subjecting the coolers to when you tested? Typically run about 20PSI while in operation, correct? Isn't city water pressure (if you were checking on a hose), typically around 60-70 PSI when in a closed loop / deadhead / however it builds pressure.... Is it possible you "popped" them while checking? Just curious as I thought about this last night. What PSI are coolers rated for? 100 PSI???

3. I was under the impression that you ran coolers to make the charge "safer", or reduce required octane levels to run at a given boost pressure, or hold more consistent charge, whatever. I think it can be stated a few different ways, basically avoid detonation. Is that correct? I guess what I'm saying is WHY THE F DO I HAVE THEM IF THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING?

BTW Joe @ TBS, I have the 14-71 package you sent out to Cleveland earlier this year, a pair, I hope they run as good as they look. Welcome to OSO!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]530033[/ATTACH]

1. What is the procedure to check for leaks in the cooler while in the boat? If you had a leak, wouldn't the water travel directly into the cylinder / head / valve, wherever? You can cap the ends off, and use a pressure tester rigged up. Such as, a stant cooling system pressure tester, like they would use to test a cars cooling system for leaks. Hand pump to 15 or 20 psi, and watch to see if it leaks down.

2. What PSI (water pressure) were you subjecting the coolers to when you tested? Typically run about 20PSI while in operation, correct? Isn't city water pressure (if you were checking on a hose), typically around 60-70 PSI when in a closed loop / deadhead / however it builds pressure.... Is it possible you "popped" them while checking? Just curious as I thought about this last night. What PSI are coolers rated for? 100 PSI??? Yes, city water pressure is higher. You can regulate it down however. I believe they want no more than about 30psi of pressure in the cores.

3. I was under the impression that you ran coolers to make the charge "safer", or reduce required octane levels to run at a given boost pressure, or hold more consistent charge, whatever. I think it can be stated a few different ways, basically avoid detonation. Is that correct? I guess what I'm saying is WHY THE F DO I HAVE THEM IF THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING? Yes, thats the idea, or principle behind them. However, in my personal opinion, their net worth, can only be stated, with DATA. Way to many guys buy them, thinking that they are gonna save their engines from detonation, make more power, turn up the boost, run less octane, run more timing, and so on. Without DATA, you are playing with fire, ASSUMING any of that. It boils down to the temperature in the manifold. Without knowing the actual temperature, you're simply guessing at whats "safe". Their are variables in every situation.

For example. Lets say you are riding the white horse, on the dyno. You are all suited up in your shining armor, ready to make some big power pulls. its a cool spring day, the dyno cell is getting some great 55* ambient air sucked in. You turn on the tap water coming from the well 150 feet below ground in the northern states. You may have 45 degree water flowing thru that core. Boy that sucker is cold when you touch the housing. You do a quick 10 second pull, intake temps look great, crank up that boost. More power is achieved!

However, now, you load up the wife and kids, and head to LOTO for the shootout in August. Now, you fire up and get on plane. You see water flowing from the intercooler dump. You smile, drop the hammer and hold that sucker down, trading in your white horse, for a magical unicorn, when all of a sudden, smoke is billowing from your hatch. OMG, What can it be????? I had these things dynoed and they were way safe!!!! Is that a piston that looks like a tenderized pork loin???

Well, what happened is this. Instead of pumping 45 degree well water thru the intercooler, you were pumping 89 degree bath water thru it. Instead of that cool 55 degree ambient air, you were ingesting 120* degree hot air from under your boat hatch. Next thing that happens, the engine builder takes an internet beating, the blower shop gets blasted on the forums, your wife kicks you in the ball bag and withholds sex for the next 6 months, and your left with a oil coated bilge to degrease from the oil that blew out of the breathers.

My advice, build a setup that doesnt need the intercoolers to survive. Install them, take advantage of the more consistant intake temps they will offer, and go boating. This way if you suck up a used condom in the water line feeding them, you wont melt things. :champs:

Your my fockin hero dude . Sound wisdom !

Mild - Ha, I needed that. Thanks.

I just figured we put them on because:

1. It was more to polish instead actually boating, yay!

2. It made everything taller, therefore, the original sleek hatch GlassDave did such a nice job on now has pro stock scoops glued on top with holes cut in the pretty hatch. (Dave, I know they are not glued, right?) And also rendering the sunpad useless.

3. It's a project, so, why not?

4. Who doesn't like more plumbing / rigging / water running through their boat?

5. I get to buy more rebuild stuff!

6. Turn up the boost, duh. "My mustang makes 14 PSI, your boat only makes how much? Gay."
(kidding)

lol, I totally hear ya. They look bad azz! Dont get me wrong, I am not saying they do not work, because they do! You just need to look at the big picture when setting them up. With their 14-71's, their intercoolers, you simply should have a great package from an induction standpoint.

We know scientifically, that when you compress air, you heat air. There is no changing physics. But in the roots blower deal, the heat problem, is more so from overdriving the blower, rather than the psi number in the intake. What I am saying is, if you had a 6-71 at 25% over making 7psi in the manifold, it will be a much hotter charge, than a 14-71 at 10% under, making 7psi in the manifold. And still probably hotter, than the 14-71 making 10psi at 1:1. Many guys simply follow the rule of "7lbs max", without looking at the entire setup. Does that mean that if you see cool temps, that you can crank the boost way up? IMO, no. You still have to consider the boost level, vs the static compression, and realize you want to run pump fuel. You can only get so much cylinder pressure before you exceed the fuels resistance to ignite itself prematurely. This is why without a blower, N/A, you still have to abide by the compression/vs octane requirements. A N/A 12.5:1 engine, can make lots of peak cyl pressure. the blower version, can withstand the same peak cyl pressure, however, it will have more cylinder pressure thruout the combustion process, which is why you get more power. Cam specs, static compression, boost pressure, intake air temps, ignition timing, chamber design, all play a part. This is why some builders can make a marine engine live at 10lbs of boost all day, and some cant make one live with 5lbs of boost.

Really looking forward to your results on your build. Should be great.

You forgot #7, more water dumps out of the transom look extra bada$$.

I wish I knew as much about engines as you you fellas had forgotten, and I work on equipment on a daily basis.

Most have learned from breakin a ton of schit .

Are you up for it ?

This used to be a signature of mine:
"Breaking parts can be fun. It just depends on what kind of mood your in."

Through the years of my own drag racing, then 9 years of a 4 car Jr Drag racing team, multiple sand cars and now go fast boats I have broken way more than my share of expensive parts. I've never found it to be much fun no matter what mood I'm in. LOL Altough if your breaking parts I guess that means your having fun. If that makes sence?

I'd love to build my next engine .... but if you don't have a trusted machinist to work with you are just playing Russian roulette, I learned that on my last build, bout 30 years ago, ran great but the rings never seated properly or valve guides, but a big puff of smoke every time you started up. Embarrassing!

I have coolers and leave the sea strainer valves closed; so 99% of the time they are never in use on my boat... I run 420 Mega Blowers with 30% Overdrive and never have a problem.

If you look through my engine build thread I pressure tested them, you can see what I used and how I did it.

A little data from a recent build I was involved with from the dyno session.

Engine was a 522ci, 10-71 blower. Blower shop intercooler.

At idle on the dyno, IAT's were in the 120's with no water flowing thru the intercooler, at idle. I turned the water on, waited a few, and the temp dropped about 3 or 4 degrees. At 6lbs of boost, 8lbs of boost, and 10lbs of boost, at max throttle, the IATs were 110-115 degrees. This was a teflon stripped littlefield blower, just the outside of the rotors stripped.

My buddy's 540ci build, also with a 10-71 but no intercooler, made around 140-150* temps at idle, and at wide open dropped to around 130-135ish. However, this was a stage 3 blower, stripped on both the inside and outside of the rotors.

According to some things I've read about regarding roots blowers, is that a tighter blower, will make more boost, however, it will also make more heat. A looser blower, makes less boost, but also less heat. I almost wonder if the 540ci build, with the stage 3 style blower, simply made more heat, because of the tighter tolerances. 20-25 degree hotter at idle.

I would have thought that with cold tap water going thru the core at idle, that by turning the water on/off, we would have saw a more substantial drop in IAT's than just a few degrees. It would have been cool to simply remove the intercooler completely and do a pull, record IAT temps and HP.

Have you tried running without them mounted on the engines? I'd imagine you'd be able to slow the blower down a bit without having to blow thru the core?

For the geeks here, this is the first law of thermodynamics. As you add pressure, you increase heat.

I now see the benefits of intercooling for max HP applications thanx to the gauge. The intercooled motor ran 25* cooler can`t argue with that.
In my personal application which is a low effective compression ratio, underdriven blower, I could spend a nice chunk of $$ for intercoolers and gain about 25hp.. or just turn up the boost another pound .:riding:

More good data will be collected on a 90* day and a WOT run

No the boat is rigged for them and I thought it looked like sh!t trying to plug all the rigging on the boat to leave them off. Plus if I know I am going to be running it super hard I like to be able to use them!

Does ANYONE know the Company or Companys that made this cooler core ?????

B Break
O Out
A Another
T Ten
T Thousand
Always spelled Boatt it just works better that way. Lol

Ok, been doing some reading here. I have water getting into the motor somehow and I'm beginning to think it's the intercooler, haven't pressure tested it yet. Can these things leak bad enough to get a considerable amount of water in the crank case?

Also, have capped off and pressure tested the block, the oil cooler, done a leak down on each cylinder, all checks out.

At this point my only two options seem to be reversion or the intercooler

a leaking cooler
can put water in the intake tract,that will push right through the rings and into the oil.a lot of other issues can milk the oil but you need to pressure check your cooler cores before you take the boat out again.