My bottom end is fine for the horsepower I`m running.. any more and changes would have to be made, Im running what I got until something breaks.





Borgie; L19? :confused:

• ARP 8740 chrome moly rod bolt - a strong affordable rod bolt, but it has only a moderate fatigue life, which makes the ARP 2000 rod bolt which is in the same general price range, a much better choice since it has twice the fatigue life.

• ARP 2000 rod bolt - considering how good its strength and fatigue life are, this rod bolt is an excellent choice for most Hotrods, Street/Strip cars, and Sportsman Drag cars.

• ARP L19 rod bolt - the strength and fatigue life increases this bolt provides over the ARP 2000 are not significant enough to overcome the concerns the L19 has with hydrogen embrittlement, stress corrosion, and the fact that it CANNOT be exposed to any moisture, including sweat and/or condensation. Don’t forget that every engine forms condensation inside, at every cold start-up. Plus, oil rises to the top of, and floats on water because of density differences, which can leave portions of the rod bolts exposed to water even after the engine is built. Therefore, it is best to avoid the L19 rod bolt altogether, especially since the ARP 2000 rod bolt already provides way more than enough strength and fatigue life than is typically required by most Hotrods, Street/Strip cars, and Sportsman Drag cars. So, there simply is no good reason to select the ARP L19 rod bolt. If you are currently running L19 bolts, I’d suggest you consider replacing them with different bolts the next time you have the motor apart.

• ARP Custom Age 625+ rod bolt - a very pricey bolt, but with its excellent strength and its impressive fatigue life, this bolt is one of the very best rod bolts on the market.

• ARP 3.5 rod bolt - this bolt has excellent strength, but its staggering cost is 43% HIGHER than the 625+ bolt, yet the 625+ bolt is superior to the 3.5 bolt in virtually every way. So, there is no good reason to select the 3.5 bolt either.

---------------

CONCLUSION and RECOMMENDATION

Of the 5 rod bolts above:

• The ARP 2000 rod bolt is an excellent value, considering how good its strength and fatigue life are. And it should be considered the rod bolt of choice for most Hotrods, Street/Strip cars, and Sportsman Drag cars, no matter how much HP they make. And this is why you most often see quality aftermarket rods come with these bolts.

• ARP Custom Age 625+ rod bolt has a price that is not for the faint of wallet, but it should be considered the rod bolt of choice for very high revving engines, road race engines, and endurance engines, which require the utmost in rod bolt strength and/or fatigue life.

Back to my oil pump, it looks like its already Melling select 10778 .

http://www.jegs.com/i/Melling/689/10...oductId=751586

That's a high volume standard pressure pump.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mel-10778/overview/

The 10778c is high volume and high pressure

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mel-10778c/overview/

good info as usual joe,i noticed that borgie is useing the L19 bolt in a build that will probibally be 600 hp or less.i was going to ask him why but i did not want to get him upset.i also noticed the rectangle port intake manifold he bought for his roval port heads but he claims the mis match wont matter.he also bought a schumann oil pump for this build.he is defenatly a guy who thinks outside of the box.imo,the 8740 rod bolt and a good mellings 10778 pump would be a better choice for his build but i don,t really like koolaid.i totally understand wanting good parts for a build but i also believe that one can spend way more than necessary on things that are not needed.

I know the 10778c has the anti-cavitation grooves, but is the only other difference between the two pumps the bypass spring? Melling used to make a pump in the Select line (I think it was 10777 or 10776) that was a standard volume and pressure, but shared the same hardened billet gears and shafts, and had the shaft extended through the cover like the 10778 line of pumps. I think it has been discontinued, because I could not find one when I was building my engine.

I am running the "roval" port design on my 265 AFR's, and went with an oval port Dart intake. I probably should have port matched them, but was told by several builders that it might be worth 10-15 hp on the top end. I was trying to get the thing built in time to dyno it and get it on the water, so I figured I probably wouldn't notice an increase that small out on the water.

Had a nice rectangle port Brodix single plane intake with brass water jackets that I wanted to run, but the port match would have been a problem. I'm thinking Borgie is probably running a larger intake port than mine, so maybe he can get away with it. Sounds like he is trying to go the extra mile for a durable build, but based on what i have seen written about the L19 bolts and moisture exposure, I would be a little nervous about that.

So you are saying Haxby is wrong? It's well known that a rectangular intake and large ovals work quite well, and yes the mismatch int bad. Also callies supplies their H beam 4340 rods with L-19's. Have had many discussions with individuals well versed in this arena(aka Engineers), and they all say the L-19 will be fine. So say what you like, I really don't care to be quite frank. I can however tell it's cold in Chicago. Meanwhile it's 82 here in phoenix, have fun with that. ;)

I will add and note that this was written by a guy on a hot rod forum from his "research", to find the limits of certain rod bolts and what is "needed". He does not work for Callies or ARP, and to my knowledge is NOT an engineer. Some good info, but some is obviously interjected with his opinion. Just keeping this transparent for future members.

Do you have any data from the engineers regarding the use of the L19 bolts?

I don't think Mike was trying to insult you with his post. I think he was questioning why you chose the parts you did. Of course you took offense as usual.

I do see Callies only offers the compstar rod with the L19 bolts. All other H beam rod manufactures do have bolt options, as well as oliver and their I beam rods. I know manley stopped offering the L19 bolts in their rods last year I think.

I know you may think Mike Tkach or myself are morons. Mike has probably a few dozen engines out there ranging from 500hp to 1200hp using all different kinds of rod bolts, and many melling pumps without failure.

I simply asked the limits of the 8740 bolts in a 900hp blown marine setup spinning 6k rpm.

L19 for that motor is simply the wrong choice, everyone except you and some secret engineers knows this. I`m sorry I brought it up, you know best, everyone else is an idiot, I had forgeten that rule.:snide:
Maybe one day you will have an open mind.
Thats what makes a smart man, an open mind .... knowing that one does NOT know it all and someone who is willing to listen and learn. Mike is such a man even after all these years he is willing and open to other ideas.

Ive had many experiences working with Engineers, they think they know it all, Id rather listen to someone who has real life experiences than someone who is book smart.

I had one engineer that always thought he was smarter than me and one day came out of nowhere and stuck his hand in a 240v. disconnect box I was working on. I had a smile on my face for a week after he got the jolt of his life. Lucky he didn`t kill himself.

Why are you guys arguing about rod bolts and a oil pump thread?

Thread is on page 6. Could have been derailed by 1st or 2nd page.

Are you an electrician by trade IC?

Did I ever call you and Mike morons? I simply disagree with your "opinion", it's that simple. Yes in my discussions with callies they did provide some info and why they chose the L-19 for the BBC H beams.

Glad to hear it's nice and balmy out there in Phoenix. Get back to me this summer when it's 115* in the shade. Aren't you guys dealing with a record drought out there? I read an article recently that said this could be the beginning of an extended decades-long drought. Hope you don't end up having to drag your boat out to the Pacific Ocean to find navigable water in a couple of years! :p

He's now an engine builder. Hangs out with a couple of guys that actually build engines and now he's a resident EXPERT..... I'll be sure to tell the engineers and owner of Callies they don't know what they are talking about.

I have used 8740, L-19, ARP2000,ARP WSB, ARP 3.5. I have used plenty of L-19 with no problems, if you get water in the oil, yes it can be a issue if not caught, either way at that point you better tear it down. The 8740 isn't going to fail on a NA at 6000 RPMs and neither will a L-19.

I was only asking as I am a member of electricians local 38, Cleveland Ohio.
I wasn't trying to discredit the man.

Hey Borg, not doubting your decision, and hoping I don't drag this subject any further off topic, but did you all discuss any concerns about moisture in the oil from condensation of leaks? Seems to me that a little bit of moisture from a pinhole leak from an intake gasket, head gasket, etc., could expose those bolts to moisture. Also saw that it was mentioned not to ever clean them with carb cleaner or something similar. Is ethanol a concern here? It's getting hard to avoid ethanol blends in fuels today unless you run racing fuel.

Just curious - not likely that I will ever have a need for L19's with my rig. Something to talk about on a bring day stuck at work. :)

Did not read the whole thread here so asking, did anyone mention about the ARP wave-loc rod bolts ? They have 2 different series of wave - loc rod bolts. High performance and the Pro series. Also ARP recommends the up most importance of proper rod bolt stretch and torque installation no matter what rod bolt you are using.

Also a side note: no hydrogen embrittlement can not take place without tensile stress. ARP limits the factor of HE by employing a baking process that purges hydrogen gas from the steel. just some short info. I have studied HE a bit as well. Mercury with the bolts on their Verado outboards was or still is having problems with this issue but no one wants to listen to me about it as I had told some of the OEM dealers to get ahold of ARP and have them provide the bolts instead of ordering back thru Merc for the problem solving..

Also oil pressure and or any pressure is just a measurement form of resistance. A lot of people think that higher oil pressure is better. I learned thru David Vizard about 25 years ago this is not the case. Too much oil pressure causes the oil pump to cavitate and can actually slow down oil flow movement. FWIW.

I'm a fan of the Schumann oil pumps as well and been using them for years. They also are incorporating some better ideas for the LS oil pumps. A lot of people do not know who they are but they have been in the oil pump ballgame for a long while.

I see you are supporting the crowd that laughs at you constantly... we have plenty of water here, that's California pal. Another overnight engine builder I see... Next thing will be Budman II posting unattainable women avatar.....

Ok enough messin with Dans thread, back to regularly scheduled content! You can PM me if you would like to go rounds.

Sounds like Mark answered my question before I posted it. Mark, looks like your ESP is in sharp focus today!

Easy Borg, just kidding with you. I don't take myself too seriously, so I can handle it when someone busts my ballz a little. And I'm too old to be chasing after unattainable women - they tend to be even more expensive than these damned boats.

I have no idea, of what type engineers you work with, maybe the electrical field is different. One of my close friends is an engineer, that not only designs production plants; he actually is on- site when the plant and it's systems are being put into place. Believe it or not, he actually can design his own boat parts, make them and install them.All the engineers I have worked with in this industry, know; what they are talking about. As far; as the engineers at Callies, I know for sure the engineer; I know there has forgotten more than most of us know about crankshaft and rod design. That engineer and his son also own Shaftech LTD, best place to send a crankshaft for repairs.

Sorry I am way behind on this thread. I write and ten more posts show up before I am done.

Anyways STRAIGHT from ARP. in my notes and I will quote them (ARP).

L-19 is a premium steel that is processed to deliver superior strength and fatigue properties. L 19 is a very high strength material compared to 8740 and ARP2000 and is capable of delivering a clamp load at 260,000 psi. Uses in Short track and drag racing apps where inertia loads exceed the clamping capability of ARP2000. Like most high strength, quench and temper steels L-19 requires SPECIAL CARE during manufacturing to avoid hydrogen embrittlement. The material is easily contaminated and subjected to stress corrosion. It must kept very well oiled and never exposed to any form of moisture.

More from ARP - materials used in the manu of cap screw type connecting rod bolts.

8740 crome moly
Aermet
ARP2000
L19
Inconel 718
ARP 3.5 (AMS5844)
Custom Age 625 plus

and they list them in that order.

ARP2000 is an alloy steel that can be safely heat treated to a higher level. Producing a greater strength material than 8740. Arp 2000 and 8740 share similar characterisitics - ARP 2000 is capable of achieving a clamp load at 220,000 psi. ARP2000 is widely used in short track and drag racing as an upgrade from 8740 chrome moly in both steel and aluminum connecting rods. Stress corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement are typically not a problem providing care is taken during installation.

A SIDE NOTE :

Metallurgy for the non engineer. Getting toughness vs. brittleness, with steels as the strength goes up the toughness decreases. At too high a strength the metal tends to be brittle. And threads accentuate the brittleness. A tool steel which can be heat treated to 350,000 psi would be a disaster as a rod bolt because of the threads,

Just wanna clear something up..
 

I`m an HVAC guy. This means I know nothing about motors.
If I was a fireman like Borgie, I would understand motors.
I was wrong about the L-19 bolts, they are great for a 600 hp motor and marine application where moisture isn`t an issue.
My wife is ugly and I only post unattainable women in my avatar.

Now that we have that cleared up, I only have a few pictures of this little hottie I got with in Arizona, she was tired of her boyfriend with a little pecker always trying to tell her how smart he was or something.. I wasn`t listening.


http://33outlaw.zenfolio.com/img/s10...3685507-11.jpg

Hooters waitress of the year!

I think you posted a pic of your wife or girl friend with Bob Teague already

Sounds like the women in Ohio are just like the 1's in Maryland

I'm not an HVAC guy or a fireman, so I guess I don't know anything about motors either, and apparently I'm not a meteorologist either. :party-smiley-004:

You bet we have busted Budman's chops, and it was all in friendly fun. FRIENDLY. You should try it some time. Also, the same guys have went out of their way to help him out with his build.

Overnight engine builder? Icdedppl is all of a sudden a resident expert?

Do you read your own posts? You have had a few conversations with Rinda, Madara, and Haxby, and although your engine hasnt been started, you've done a ton of recommending, and made it a point to discredit many members choice of parts, oils, and general setups.

You've recommended scorpion rockers, callies compstar parts, schumann oil pumps, Holley's EFI, edelbrocks pro flo intake, certain oils and viscosities, and that using a rectangle intake on an oval works just fine. While all that may be true, its coming from a guy, who's engine is merely a prototype at this point. You are not impressing anyone with your 496 oval port headed build, or the rectangle/oval thing. That stuff has been going on since the 60's.

When Madera, rinda, haxby speak, I listen. Hence why I asked about the rod bolts and main cap setup on icedppl's engine. Those guys do know their stuff hands down. However, I do not take words from their mouth, and pretend to make them my own.

Somehow, every single thread you are involved in, you find a way to argue with someone, that you feel disagrees with you. Now you're gonna throw a dig because we live in a cold climate and you live in arizona? Well, that may be true, but we still have logged a hell of alot more hours on the water in the past two seasons. While you been repairing a rotted transom in your boat and working on perfecting your dream 600HP engine, some of us been actually running our engines. You have REPEATEDLY attempted to make personal slams, at some of us because of our avatars. A couple of guys having fun with some titts and azz, and you try to make it personal, by saying we post pics up of women we could never get in real life. Don't flatter yourself PAL.

Since day 1 here on oso you've managed to get in more arguments with people, than you have helped or participated. The same guy a year ago was pm'ing me asking how to attach the factory windage tray, using standard main cap bolts (something my 11 year old nephew could figure out by looking at it), But now you're all over the forums spouting out metallurgy, oil shear, fatigue specs on aluminum vs steel, which is the best brand crank and rods to run, and correcting everyone who doesnt agree with you. And Budmans the overnight engine builder?

I'm in Kentucky, so can't really comment on the ones in Ohio or Maryland, but I suspect that it's universal. Things sure get interesting around here during the winter, don't they?

Hey easy on the firemen! Bob teague used to be also from what hear lol

If only us lowly part time boaters could get some of them hot chics, it would make up for our lack of engine and oil knowledge ;)

So was Mike Tkach. All you fireman engine builders....I can't keep up anymore. :picard1:

I've seen your wife. You're doing just fine!!!

If things don't work out with her, you can always hit up Hooters for a few wings and a new lady. Almost as good " bang for the buck " as those compstar rods.

If the engineers in this industry know what they are talking about then why in the world are there so many part figment issues. Sometimes you have to re-engineer everything to get the stuff to fit right and work. Not really referring to Callie's although I did have almost a grand in heavy metal balancing there crank and rods.

Firemen always seem to be bragging about their hoses. ;)

I would venture that there are a few of us on these forums who have, ahem, "outkicked our coverage" in regards to spouses and significant others. I know I have.

Let's take this thread back full circle and start bragging about who has the best pump again. :D

A different kind of engineer, but I work with ones who specialized in highway construction/infrastructure. Some of these guys, couldnt operate a weed wacker without hurting themselves. Or ever laid a yard of concretein their life. But they will come out to the job sites with their clipboard and white hard hat, attempting to discredit the tradesmen's choice of attack. Maybe before they do, they should realize their safety vest is inside out.