540 chevy
 

dennis moore
i read your book on marine bbc's, however it did not go into 540's. i would like to build two 540 motors that make around 600 hp each. i am capable of assembling these however advice on cam, pistons, heads that would allow me reach these goals would be appreciated

You can easyly get 600 HP out of a 502 and still be turn key with 0 maintainance more than a stock engine.

does it not cost very little more to build 540? i want it fat and lazy, no problems, i run this boat alot on long trips and want total reliability. plus the ability to make more power later

540
 

I think that you are asking the wrong guy! Building a 540 should be done with a complete kit purchased from one of the big boys like Crower or Lunati. You need to buy the Crank, Rods, Pistons Bearings, Balancer and Flywheel as a matched set. I would even buy the camshaft from them as well. It is really important that someone with a lot of experience assemble the parts and build the motor. Good Luck, I wish I could afford to build a 540!
Sincerely
Dennis Moore :)

i'm sure dennis will have more to add to your questions, but personaly if i wanted to have complete reliabilty, i would stick to the one horse to one cubic inch theroy. 600 hp out of a 502 is very possible, but i wonder about the reliabilty after a couple a hundred hours.
dave

doctor dave
i want a 540 not a 502 for this reason

Saber,
you need to talk to Kaama he has 540's in his thunder and has done tons of reserch about what combo's are reliable....his motors made 699hp at 5700 if my memory serves me right. SuperV and I are running 454's that make 505 at 5500 very reliable nothing radical (89 octain) if you want to do the 540's someone posted that Cheif has shortblocks under 3k a good set of heads from Jim Valeko and your on your way!!!!

Saber I just looked at Cheifs website and the rotating assembly is $2850 if you have a 502 your golden!

I'm toying with the idea of building a pair of 572's here in the near future. That would mean that my 540's might be for sale. Blocks, pistons, cranks, rods, hyd. roller cams, heads w/valves, springs, retainers, pushrods, intake manifolds (only)---or keep them for spares.

600 HP is preatty mild for a 502. You can do this with off the shelf parts and it will be turn key if the right person puts it togeather. The same thing goes for a 540. The problem with the 540 is that as in any boater he will soon want more and then he will be in the same park as with the 600 hp 502. I am thinking seriously about going to 540's for my boat this winter. And as in any motor the right parts have to be put togeather. If you get them wrong then you will have problems. Useing the right machine shop is even more important if you are doing the assembly yourself ( as I do and always have)

Saber-
The 502, 9.8 inch deck block can be used for a 540, but if you are buying new blocks, I would go with the 10.2 inch tall decks. At 540 cubes the 502 block is near maxed out, but the tall deck is on the lower end of it's displacement range. You could go with a slightly larger stroke and leave plenty of room for an overbore. The tall deck can use longer rods which give a better rod-to-stroke ratio.

Check Speedomotive for rotating assemblies, and also for cost comparisons. World products makes the Merlin heads, which are said to raise horsepower 50-100 over stock HP heads.

Don't create problems for yourself by mixing different valvetrain components. Get them from 1 source and check valve spring tension, valve-piston clearance and installed height before putting the heads on, and valve spring clearance at full open with valves lashed BEFORE hitting the starter button or key. I have seen a lot of engine problems posted on this board because those things were not checked.

Good Luck
Bulldog

KAAMA, when you're ready to sell those tired 540's:D let me know as I'll be needing them for the next (and last) boat. I can scrape together a couple bucks.:D

SABER28,

Give Callies a call. They make some of the best cranks and will supply rotating assemblies. I have heard bad things about the Eagle cranks, machine work sucks, but I dont know that for a fact. I know when you mike a Callies crank it will be right or they will replace it..

Another option is a new crate motor from GM?? I heard they were offering a 572" motor around 700hp. Not sure how marine it is, but I had a Gen V 502 and never broke the rotating assembly.. always the damn roller lifters. So now I run flat tappet and no problems so far this summer.

Good luck, let us know what direction you go..

Dick

why do you think most of the companies limit themselves with 540's?

what are the disadvantages of xxxlarge engines on water..like 600+ cu's

once I spoke with a famous engine builder in states and he told me xxxlarge engines loose power sooner than smaller engines.?what can be the reason to this?

Steve whats with pushing the 502???why push 502 ci hard when you can get it easier with 540 ci ???? bigger is always better!!!!

There's reliability in cubic inches.

Gadgets, a you sure?....a GM 572" crate motor??? Must be a new release eh?

Kaama you going to make me a great deal on those 540 short blocks????

thanks for the input, what i am looking for is very specific details, brands and part numbers that you guys have used. tell me what worked and what didn't. i definately will be building 540's so 502 advice, while appreciated, isn't what i am looking for. i don't want to build two ginea(sp) pigs. i want to build them and use them, not repair them, thanks

I agree bigger is always better when it comes to making HP. But he is only looking for 600 HP. That can easily be gotten with a 502 and it will be turn key. You have seen how my engines run and they are turn key and havn't been apart in three years except for bad rocker arms (6 years old ) and that can happen to any motor. I am pulling them out of the boat this fall to repair the water leaking in arround my tiller arm shaft and while I have them out I plan on doing some more TINKERING.

Stop in at Wesco enterprises in Hudsonville talk to Dave Wesseldyke he wont steer you wrong .....he might push some high priced parts but tell him what you want to spend and He will take care of you. Try and stop early in the day before he gets to far into something!!His shop is on 18th ave north of Chicago Dr. go north on 18th turn in at Harbor Master(right) go to the very end of the complex look for the boats and other really cool ****!!!!

thanks for the input, what i am looking for is very specific details, brands and part numbers that you guys have used. tell me what worked and what didn't. i definately will be building 540's so 502 advice, while appreciated, isn't what i am looking for. i don't want to build two ginea(sp) pigs. i want to build them and use them, not repair them, thanks




Sabre28
Here is a list of what we use to build motors and is a base for our 540's. We have been building this combination with a great success rate.


Merlin or GM Block
4340 crank
SRP pistons
6.385 rod
zero gap rings
Pro One 310cc heads (fully ported)
Ferrea Valves
Comp hydraulic roller cam/valve train
Canton oil pan
MSD ignition

This combination will make 700hp @ 5700. If 600hp is your goal I would leave the heads unported and use a smaller cam.
You will also need a larger oil cooler.
Stay away from the cheap cranks. We did the R&D on these it's not worth it. Spend the extra money and buy one.

Same with cylinder heads. We sell the castings for the same price as the jip joints. Our assembled heads are more expensive because we install them with better parts for marine.

On a 700hp, 540" Chevy, what would the carb / intake combo be?

Dart intake / 1050 Dom ???

Don Man

Yes Dart intake and 950 Holley

JimV, For an intercooled SC EFI application to get 1000HP and TQ, Would you build a 540 or 572? Would your 540 as described to support 1000hp or what would you change? Thanks.

bb cylinder heads :how to choose?
how do I choose cc's?
bigger better?
which one do I need for 800 hp on top of 540 cu in?

thnx

Tim;

I have fully ported and polished Dart 360's (flow 420) on my 632 that made 900hp NA on pump gas. How many RPM's do you want to turn? This plays a big role in what size heads to go with. To make 800hp on a 540 NA running pump gas you're going to have to turn it very hard (like 7000) which will need a minimum of dart 345 pro 1's. There really is no disadvange to big CID motors except cost and their limited rpm ability (8500 is about it for a 632) which a marine engine will never see.

502 heads
 

JimV

I have heard good things about your work. My cigarette has
502 mags that have had new hydraulic valve train 650 lift
rect. port chevy heads and victor intake and 830 carb and Stellings headers. The heads have been pocket ported and angle valve job. How much horsepower could i expect to pick up if
i had you fully port some dart 310 and how much would heads
like that cost already have crane springs etc. thanks

jdnca1:thnx
how many hp do you think I can receive from a 540 at 5600 rpm under optimum cylinder hads with roller-marine-racing cam?

725-750hp with a solid roller set-up. I would talk with Dart on the heads, I'm split between the 325 and 345 Pro 1's. (119cc) Dart intake and 1090 Barry Grant King Demon carb, or 1050 Dominator. If you decide to go the solid roller route I would suggest looking at the Schubeck radius lifters. www.schubeckracing.com

how about brodix bb2xtra?
is there anybody here using bb2xtra?
opinions pls
thnx

Saber28, The engine I run in my personal boat uses a Merlin II block, Crower crank and rods, JE 9.4:1 pistons, mild Ultradyne hydraulic roller(232/238),Brodix BB2+ heads that are ported and Cutler(Holley now) MPI system. This engine made 608 HP at 5300 and 648 ft. Lbs @ 4200. It idles like a stocker and I have 150 hours on it with nothing but oil changes. Stay concervative and use good parts and you'll be very happy with your results. If you try to get much more HP than this from a 540, reliability will suffer.
NordicHeat is running an almost identical engine that we built and has similar hours with no failures.

JimV

I have heard good things about your work. My cigarette has
502 mags that have had new hydraulic valve train 650 lift
rect. port chevy heads and victor intake and 830 carb and Stellings headers. The heads have been pocket ported and angle valve job. How much horsepower could i expect to pick up if
i had you fully port some dart 310 and how much would heads
like that cost already have crane springs etc. thanks


Bad to the Bone

I would guess about 60 to 80hp @ 5700. A 950hp carb should make a little more hp. What rpm are you turning now?

Jim V thanks for the input max rpm with 26 pitch bravo i is
5400 rpm. Would milling the heads to bump compression
also help. thanks

JimV, For an intercooled SC EFI application to get 1000HP and TQ, Would you build a 540 or 572? Would your 540 as described to support 1000hp or what would you change? Thanks.


Cobra Marty


Tough question. The changes would start with the GM tall deck splayed cap block . It's stronger but weighs a bit more. A smaller bore seems to minimumize side loading of the pistons so to keep scuffing to a minimum I'd stay with a 4.5 bore 4.5 stroke for 572ci. Plus this keeps the walls plenty thick to counter added cylinder pressure and helps thermal retention, ect.
I would spare no expense in the crank and rotating assembly fully counterweighted, internally balanced crankshaft. Also you may want to consider dry sump oil system. The rods may need extra side clearance to increase oil volume. Also by changing the heads to the Big Chief style will benifet. Making more power natural asperated means less boost. "O" ringing and using studs instead of bolts may be good insurance as well.

To answer your question, yes the 540 combination will make 1000hp but it really is not designed for that hp level.

Bad to the bone

Absolutly, You could run 10.5:1 compression on 92 octane with aluminum heads, unfortunatly there is not matieral in the deck to cut to get the chamber volume down.

From what Im reading, Dennis's book sounds very educational. Can anyone tell me where I might pick one up??

thanks

Order a book from me!
 

Call me at 626-357-3573 with a Visa or Mastercard # and I will send you a book!
Dennis Moore

Saber28,
I agree with MR. Gadgets and JimV, stay away from the Eagle cranks. I used one when I built my 540 and had to have Moldex fix the poor machine work that Eagle does. I guess you get what you pay for. Next time I will use a Callies crank.

JimV,
I'm using a set of iron oval port Merlins that were supposedly ported by Sterling. I guess these came off of an old "B" class motor. I'm wondering how these would compare against your Pro1's. I'm making around 675hp with a solid roller but want to change to a hydralic set up but don't want to lose too much power. Any suggestions ? New heads are out of the question though.

It looks like no one gave you part numbers like you originally asked --- so here is what my parts consisted of when i built my 540CID motor -- just a little background 1st though -- i built 360 CID SBC alcohol motors with 14.5:1 compression for my sprintcars for years - i was taught to use nothing but the best bottom end parts and have never had a failure - this now includes my 3 year old 540 BBC with a small blower on it - which i run WFO for miles and miles at a time - i would recommend putting the money in the bottom end first - then put what you have left into the heads to make HP.
---------------------------
Bottom end

Block --- Merlin II #081111 Tall Deck - 4.490 bore as-purchased - bore to 4.500 in. - deck to 10.188 in. to put pistons in the hole .003 in. (you can deck to whatever you want, based on your piston, heads, and gasket cc's to get the compression you desire)

Crank --- Crower 4340 non-twist crank - 4.250 in. stroke - Main Journals were 2.7485", rods were 2.1980" - recommend sets of MS 829 H & HX main bearings to get 2.8 - 3.1 tenths clearance / 3.1 - 3.5 tenths on rear ---- and CB 743 H and H-1's to get 2.7 - 3.0 tenths on rods (Keith Eickert told me to not go more than 4.250" stroke to keep pistons from coming out of bottom of bores even with the Tall Deck block)

Rods ---- nothing but the best here - Carrillo H-Beam C427 #76535 6.535" ctr to ctr with 7/16" bolts -- piston pin bore is .9910 - big end is 2.3250 -- (next time i would go to an even longer rod and get the pistion pin higher - i talked to Kieth Eickert and he does this - he has special pistions to do this with)

Balancer - Fluidamper - #712100

Pistons - I used the Wiseco Custom built # 18878 --- 4.500 Dia. 1.525 compression height , (-)14.50 cc inverted dome, 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 rings -- my compression ratio was 8.98:1 (using a small blower)

Pins - Wiseco # S460 - buy honed to fit from the piston mfg.

Rings - Total Seal STANDARD Tension rings !!! Not low tension unless you use a vacuum pump or a 3 or 4 stage dry sump to control your oil - i had problem here until i changed to std tension rings - bore too big for low tension with no dry sump or vacuum -- Total Seal # 505 TS1 919025501R08 --- also, make sure you use non-synthetic oil to seat rings with first.

--------------
Top end

Heads -- use as big a set as you can afford - the 4.5" bore allows BIG chambers with BIG valves = big hp --- the bore is so big that you do not have to do any cylinder grinding to unshroud the valves if you use a standard set of Merlin 3003 or Chevy rectangular port heads that Dennis Moore talks alot about.

Valves -- must use inconel exhaust valves - can use SS intake -- make sure you have the machine shop grind a wide contact area to ensure adequate heat transfer from the exh valves -- this is why BIG heads with Big valves are nice, because you loose some flow efficiency by doing this necessary evil -- i warped my exh valves within minutes using a high performance valve job when i first went out -- compression test revealed that after first run -- Ferrera said .090 to .100 contact width. open up guides a little too - .0015 in, .0018-.0020 exh

Valve springs - ISKY has the best quality control - i have had good luck with them - never want one of these to fail.

Cam -- your choice here - but people tend to always go too big -- remember you are running around 5500 rpm -- the bottom end above willl allow 7000+ rpm but you don't want to go there for life at WFO throttle all day long.

hope this helps