Take a look atbthe new gm perf block for a big bore engine, the cylinders arent siamezed so it offers better cooling would make a great big bore cube 540-557 and still a standard deck height.

and if he did,,we'd get 7 pages from others against him,,just saying and I'm neutral on it these pissing contests and self promotions.

I used the new Gen 6 GMPP short deck block for my 548 build. Summit price matched it @$1800 and it worked great. Has a lot of nice modern provisions on it and is much beefier than standard production gen 6 block

Happen to have a part number handy?

pretty sure this is it

http://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19170540.html

That one is siamese. Only one block in the 2015 GMPP catalog is listed as non siamese, and states max bore as 4.310 which makes sense. So the big bore open block statement had me wonder what part number he is referring to.

this is the one I bought: Bowtie Sportsman Block: Max Bore 4.600" already clearanced for 4.500" crank, splayed main bolts as well.
]http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19212192/10002/-1?parentProductId=2812294

that one has siamise bores.

What about the way big power (700HP and up) is run?

Example I only ran my boat on avg. 5-6 times a year. And if I ran it at idle for 30 mins to get to lake and then cruised (3800RPM) to my beach spot and sat all day and then came home. Would that extend my longevity?

I know big lift cams, blowers,and turbos are hard one engines BUT if your not running them super hard all the time can that buy 200 hrs on a motor?

Brad Malcuit a circle track builder told me once 1000 laps after that your on( borrowed time) BUT we ran the snot out of it!!!!

I do agree. And probably why, a guy who has a big twin engine vee bottom, who spends alot of time at high rpm or wot, will wear stuff out faster than the small boat, who cant stay in it very long due to being hull limited, like chine walking , etc, or simply a smaller lake where you are real estate limited. I know some guys who rarely hold their engines wot, and some who do for ridiculous amounts of time. The guy who runs his big power stuff wide open for 20,30 miles at a crack, surely better have his chit together, or as we see very often, the end result of what happens when its not.

Some things that are rarely spoken about, is valve seat material, and valve seat widths. If your building a big power offshore endurance engine, that is an area that should not be overlooked imo. I paid extra money for all new tucker seats in my heads when they were being redone, per the machine shops recommendation . I believe teague uses them as well as mercury racing on some of their newer big power stuff. Fancy high flow race car valve jobs, might not be what you want in an offshore endurance engine either.

Being easier on your equipment will absolutely make it live longer, but if I had a big power engine that was only used 5-6 times a season (assuming you have a realitively short season) you should most definitely back off your rockers in the offseason to not leave undue stress on your valve train and be sure to make sure it's fogged properly. For what it's worth most big hp stuff (1000-1200hp) I am personally familiar with look to be refreshed in the 120 hour range. Refresh it before it breaks and it's a lot cheaper and a lot less downtime.

I have Back4mores old Fountain, hour meters are right around 300hrs 557 Dart BIg M blocks Canfield aluminum heads & 8-71 blowers 850hp @ 6.5lbs. He did the lifters around 200hrs & I believe that's all that has ever been done. Had to rebuild one this summer from burning up a few pistons from an ignition issue. Just did a full refresh since it all had to be apart. Leaked down the other & gonna give it another season then rebuild it. Cant remember #'s from leak down, it showed a lil tired but nothing major.

Got it!!!

I agree on the rocker deal.

The rocker deal is a bunch of bull. heat and cycles are what kill valve springs. You can keep a quality valve spring compressed at near coil bind for years and it will not change. The only reason to back one off would be to seal up the cylinder to keep moisture or critters out.

a buddy used to back off the rockers on his 454 with hyd flat tappet cam every winter,talk about a waste of time!i think max rpm was 5000.

For the past 11 years I've run 572/580" blower engines. They've been 830/875/965hp respectively and my refresh intervals were at 250 hours.

The last go around (965hp) I bought new blocks because the bowtie blocks were showing their age. Most of those 11 years I was running solid rollers and had one lifter failure because I tried to get an "extra season" out of them knowing I'd be doing a full overhaul last winter. This last build I switched from a solid roller setup to a hydraulic setup and "picked up" nearly 80hp/ft.lbs.

What about solid roller? I never did it on a boat but the circle track stuff we did

................;....

nevermind

I'll throw my findings out there. ,We used to build a ton of turn key, 100% complete, new engines when new boat sales were much higher. Because of that, we did a bunch of very similar engines. One really common build was a 598 with a 3.3L Whipple. We called it a 925 efi, but they made anywhere from 970-1030 hp.They varied slightly in parts selections, which accounts for the hp range. We tailored them to the customer and the boat, so we changed the cam and head selection from one to the other. On average, we set the rebuild interval at 250 hours. There was nothing more than routine maintenance until then.We recently freshened a pair that had 318 and 322 hours on them. Now, they didn't get run WOT a bunch because even though the boat was 38' long, it couldn't handle the power that well. On top of that, the boat ran over 90 mph at 4000 rpm, so there wasn't much need to run around WOT. The lake it was on is pretty long at over 60 miles. It regularly got run at 4000+ rpm the entire length on the lake and back again. Though it didn't get a ton of WOT, it got a bunch of sustained running over 4000 rpm. Where we have seen that most boats have about half of their hours at idle, this one had very little idling. There are very few and small idle zones, so it spent most of its time on plane. I'm sure that more WOT would have shortened its life span, but how much? I don't know that answer. I do know that the inside looked incredible. We were able to hone it and go right back together, with some upgrades to make over 1200 hp.

We have done most of them at 250 hours or so, and they all looked the same. Hone them and reassemble. In a few cases, we coated the skirts of the new pistons to make them .001-.002 larger to snug them up in the bore. On the flip side, with our 1200-1300 hp engine, we typically go through them around 125-150 hours. I have done a few at just less than 100 hours, and didn't really see a difference in them versus one that had 125+.

I find it much easier when you have done a particular engine combo many times because you know exactly what to expect. You know what the wink links are and correct them with each successive engine.That is big advantage over a one time build.
Eddie

Good info, thanks Eddie!

I'm curious to see how my new setup (965hp) will fair over the years. I tried something very different and I'm not running an intercooler (6-7psi boost) at this power level. Instead, I'm running a twin nozzle water/methanol injection system. Right now it's a 50/50 mix but next year I might run 60/40 mix and see what it does. "Without" methanol it ran 94.5 mph and "with" Methanol it ran 95.4mph and the equivalent of 1/4 tank of fuel in weight. It also didn't trim it to the moon on those passes because we were reading A/F numbers so there may be another 1-2mph in it yet. It's the fastest my ole Apache has ever run. :-)

I've always been hesitant to run a meth injection for fear that the customer will let it run out, not realize it's not on, etc. etc. and burn the engine down. If it was my own, then no problem. I have some customers that can't check the oil correctly, so I try to make everything as simple as possible. For lack of a better term, I have to make it dummy proof. lol

However, meth injection is a very viable way to get the job done. As well as cooling the intake charge, it has the added advantage over an intercooler by raising the octane a bit. It definitely works when set up properly.

Sounds like you are getting it dialed in. Good luck with it.
Eddie

Thats some fantastic hours of service, for that kind of power. 300 hours from 900-1000HP engines? I like it!

the boat i picked up are making 850hp 557ci. only 20 hrs on them now. but builder says they are good for 250-300hrs if i beat them and if a dont beat them he says they could last quite a while longer

Unfortunately, what they say, and what they do, are two totally different things.

I have a pair of vortec blown and intercooled 540s with just under 800 hp each. Pulls 5lbs of boost at 5000 rpm. I have 300 hrs on them now and doing top ends. After a leakdown, a lot of valves were leaking. Nothing leaked through the rings though. Still have the nice cross hatch on the cylinders. They have callies cranks, Carillo rods and je pistons. I have prelubers so never a dry start. I also have KE oil thermostats and don't go over 3000 rpms until oil temps are good. I cruise at 45 mph at 2500 rpms. They don't pull boost until 60 mph at 3500. I end up cruising mostly since none of my buddies can run with me. It's boring being first to the beach and nobody to party with. Lol

Running methanol through a fuel system is one thing of flushing system to prevent corrosion after the fact, injecting methanol into the intake charge has a cooling effect of the air charge... I guess the question is are you changing the the A/F ratio to correct for fuel and addition of methanol at those points excessive methanol creates moisture within the air charge due to the absorption of moisture, this will cause milking of oil and contamination of oil from UN-burnt methanol....If all these factors are addressed, it's a great power multiplier.

Getting back to this Thread;
Power verses maintenance and cycles times of components.. Rebuild; times really start at the beginning of the build sheet of the engines, power, usage, maintenance, quality of parts and tuning....cylinder wear is going to be directly proportional to, piston design, bore finish, ring pack, lubrication and proper fuel curve....Valve train components, and there life and service points are going to be determined on rpm, cam design and cycles... that falls true for rocker arms, also... Lifter rebuilds, as far as wheels and bearings, starts at the part its self.... springs should be checked as certain hours in service, the spring is still making the same cycle along with the lifter.. wheel oiled lifters over non oiled wheeled lifters.... idling on a non oiled wheel, is going to have a wear effect at low rpm s, verses a higher idle...
To a certain point, running a hydraulic lifter verses a solid lifter on a bigger lobe can possibly mask valve train instabilities, due to the lash changes are being taken up by the hydraulic to a certain point..... Running a solid lifter, say a tight lash..... will show instabilities in the valve train, due to lash changes. either tightening lash from valve seat erosion or any issues with valve face or increases from lifter wheel bearings or lobe wear/ damage..... Valve springs, should be checked annually, either in a bench Rimac or Logan Smith, that attaches to the rocker arm and you can read the PSIs from a oil dampened gauge.... This is all based on the individual engine builds and specs of components..

Coating piston skirts a common practice, standard coatings come in about .0014" over that not recommended by Calico Coatings, they will not guarantee, thick coatings... Other questions; would include ring lang areas in pistons, worn grooves are a issue, that will "piss off " a ring sealing causing ring flutter and blow-by....All being said; if the valve train is stable all lashes will remain constant...... cycle times are important before failure could occur....

Owner, operation, maintenance, along with the parts being used all determine service life... you can put 500 hours on a 525 EFI and have the parts not fail but be far beyond service life and spec. You, could have a engine that starts to destroy it's self on the dyno or 10 hours in the boat.. only due to improper part selection and machining / assembly...You can have a engine on the dyno, that looses ring seal due from incorrect honing or fuel wash taking the rings out...... all is going to shorten engine life......
It all comes down to proven knowledge, and success of engine builds with parts selection, and machining practices....

thanks for your input Eddie

I don't blame you. I don't think I would send one out the door with it either. It's definitely something I keep an eye one but couldn't expect the average Joe to do that. I'm running two 1 gallon tanks and they both lasted the whole summer. Although, my WOT passes were very minimal.

I'm still dialing everything in. Originally my goal was to tune the engine and then have the methanol as backup but I quickly learned that you need to tune it for both. I've also found that my A/F numbers are actually lower "without" the meth and higher by 2 tenths when the meth is on. THe cooling affect and the meth are leaning it out just a little bit. Right now the setup is very rich and I'll be pulling some jet out of it in the spring. The system is set to come on at 4psi and it progressively increases up to max boost. Haven't noticed any milking of the oil what so ever.

A friend of mine is running E85 and meth injection on his 1800hp drag car without intercoolers and it's working unbelievably well. He's been helping me get mine dialed in and we've been talking a lot about what mixtures to run since most of the meth evaporates out of the charge once it travels through the blower.

It's been a fun journey so far.

Have you recorded intake manifold temps with and without the meth turned on?

Its supposed to drop the intake charge by 150 degrees. I don't have a probe to test it and probably wont bother at this point because I recorded a 1 mph increase on Meth and slight increase in RPM. The bottom line for me is that it's doing its job.

1450 horsepower, two summers of running and still haven't adjusted valves, changed the oil, or even changed the spark plugs....

Im just curious. We monitored intake temps on icdedppls 10-71 blown 540 with 7-8lbs of boost. No intercooler. Temps were 140-150 in the intake at wot. If meth dropped it 150 deg, then that would mean the intake charge would be 0 deg F! It would be nice to see ambient temps in the manifold though

Too much fuel will have an effect on a O2 sensor making it read lean....If air volume is the same and fuel, isn't the methanol adding more fuel, but also as we know cooling the air charge ? I'm asking; because you are actually blending the fuel.... what would be the ideal A/F ratio with the blend of gasoline and methanol in the calculation ????

My guess would be that an engine would require an incrementally lower A/F ratio with a higher percentage of Alcohol in the gasoline to be safe. The methanol injection is adding more fuel and cooling the air but it's also providing a more complete burn. I don't know what affects water has on all of this equation. The theory makes sense to me but I'm not an engineer, nor am I an expert in the area. It's all new to me but it seems to be working so I'm rolling with it.

LOTS of guys running meth tanks on turbo snowmobiles at the 350 to 500 hp level, yes, guys are getting 450+ hp from 1.1 liter sleds, a few have blown up though at high boost levels when meth ran out or pump malfunctioned, fwiw, Smitty

That's what scares the hell out of me and has stopped me from using it. It can certainly have it's merits, but there are pitfalls as well.

Mark brought up a great point about AFR's. Straight Methanol has an ideal AFR of something like 7 or 8:1 (I don't know for sure, but I know it's much lower than gas) When you start adding Meth, should the AFR's be brought down. If an engine does it's best at 12.5:1 on straight gas, then what would it be with some Meth mixed in? I guess that would be determined by the amount added, but is it proportional? If you added 10% by volume to the gas, then would the ideal AFR drop by .45 to 12.05:1 (10% the difference between 12.5:1 and 8:1)? I don't know the answer to that. Who does?
Eddie

we have been running a drag car turbo LS power 25psi on E85 no intercooler w/meth as well and works great, I tried the same setup on our procharged 509 and even with the smallest jet they said they had slowed the boat down everytime the meth came on...now that was at only 5-6 psi