Manley Nextek springs? Anyone?
 

Anyone running these springs? Doing some spring shopping.


Yesterday I tore into my stuff, as I plan on replacing valve springs. Had isky's. Took a couple springs off, doing some measuring and checking. Didn't like the wear marks in the ID locators. Started looking further. Spring fit sloppy on the locator. The locator shoulder measured .680. Spring's inner ID, .740. It had a nice .060 clearance. Same story on the retainers. Looks like the springs may have been wandering around. Guess is pays once again, to take stuff apart yourself and check it. :pacifier:

I've had good luck with the isky's, but just looking around a bit.

Joe, Couple questions-

Did the spring wire exhibit loss of material on the ID? This would be seen by flattening of the inner profile and could be measured.

Did the springs display loss of rate, or signs of degradation/uneven pressure?

As an aside, 0.060" clearance is misleading in my opinion. You had 0.030" radial clearance.

No, just the spring digging into the base of the locator at this point. I have not removed all 32 springs yet, to see if any other damage was done.

Yes, I guess it technically is .030 radial clearance. Still quite a bit more than it should be. This is why certain springs, go with certain hardware.

Either way, I plan on replacing the springs as they are due for replacement, as they have been on there a while, as well as the hardware.

Ck with PAC springs, very high quality and they are manufacture, most are not

Joe if you're feeling bored I'd love to see how those springs' rates compare to their spec.

I do plan to have them checked. Im not as much worried about the effect that might have had on the springs pressures, as much as i am about the metal shavings from the springs eating away at the retainers and possibly the seals, (havent taken them all off yet), and the harmonics going on when at 6000rpm for long periods of time.

So far it seems like most guys who set up endurance stuff, like .005-.01 in this area .

Springs, retainers and locators need to be snug fit IMO. When the engine spends most of it's life near or at peak torque it makes these things all the more critical for longevity and reliability.
Manley Nextec are good springs. Isky Tool Room with the RAD treatment are good springs. Anything I use in these sorts of engines have some sort of endurance treatment like metalax or other stress relief treatments.

Does it look like it was floating the valves? Where the keys jammed in the retainer? Did it do it on both intake and exhaust?

Locks werent jammed, stems look good, lifters good, etc.

I have three sets of Isky 9905 tool room springs with a little less than 50 hours on them if you're interested. Too much spring pressure for my 525's.

Thanks bud. If my memory is right, the 9905s are too light for me ...

MT, I have had good luck with Crower 68385X2 springs. I don't know what can you are running but check them out and tell me what you think.

165# at 1.900", spring rate of 475.

Maybe one of you cylinder head guys can shed some light for me. In the past, i've always left this stuff up to the machine shops. Deciding to stop taking their words on things these days.

Played around a little more today, snapped a few pics. You can see where the spring base was rubbing on the locators.

I mic'd each setups installed heights. Measurements in the pics. .045 off from tallest to shortest.

Need to bring springs to shop and check the pressures, but from my homework, these were ISKY 9925 springs, according to their stripe colors, and physical dimensions. Shop originally had told me they "came in around 165psi on the seat, and 450ish open". I dont see how that is possible with install heights ranging from 2.00 to 2.045 . FWIW, all this stuff is going in the trash, but......

And a video clip of the slop in the spring/locator fitment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCkhwpDDL5w&feature=youtu.be

Clearly the wrong ID locator for that spring and I agree...there was no way you were getting 165# with those installed heights. The variation in installed heights comes from measuring the first one and "assuming" the rest will be the same just because the retainers and locks are "supposed" to be the same. Depending on where you get them (retainers and locks) they may vary as much as you see or even more. To get installed heights right, every valve needs to be measured. Springs, retainers and locators all need to be matched for proper fit. I'll share one other little detail most don't know; if you look at the pic of your valve spring, the ends of the coils are different on the inner and outer. The outer looks like it's clipped off straight and square, and the inner looks like it has a point to it. There is a top and bottom to each valve spring...the top is the end with the point, and the bottom is the end that is cut square. If you look at your spring, the other end of the outer will have a point, the the other end of the inner will be cut square. That spring in your pic needs to have the inner removed and flipped over so the points are on one end and the square cuts on the other. The pointed ends go up when you install the spring. I can see that the tip of the valve stem in the video doesn't look real happy either.

Thanks for the insight ! Definitely making some changes to the setup. Fun learning what to do and what not to do. Going with all new springs and hardware, and plan to spend the time evening the install heights, proper hardware fitment, and so on.

Isky Tool Room. You won't regret the little extra dough

Little update. Pulled heads off and brought them to head shop.

Spring pressure checked out at 180psi on the seat, and 470 open.

There were definite signs of the spring/locators and what not in severe rotation. Polish marks in the aluminum under the locator as well. They are not the 9925 springs I thought they were.

At max lift, I was only around 1.400" of the spring due to the excessive install height with these springs. His thoughts were, besides the locator and retainer being the wrong pieces, the fact the spring was setup a mile from coil bind/full stack, the springs were probably seeing a significant surge condition and walking around.

Getting all new springs, hardware, and a fresh valve job. The valves did not have a backcut on them, but will now.

Mike@ High flow will set you up right, he`s very detail oriented and won`t just throw a bunch of incorrect parts together like LAN (LAM?) or whatever that mickey mouse shop is called. I wouldn`t let them tie my shoes.
My heads were a mess too.

This is what Manley valves did for me:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...8/DSC01806.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...8/DSC01807.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...8/DSC01808.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...8/DSC01809.jpg

Granted this was a 6.1 Hemi and not a BBC, but they only had 5,000 miles on them with a mild cam. Went back to stock Mopar springs with a bigger cam and stroked it to a 392, and put 85,000 miles on it before I sold it still running strong. I will NEVER run Manley anything ever again. There customer service sucked too.

I just had the same situation on my stock 5.7 hemi. Got a new engine installed under warranty due to it. Piston and head were destroyed. In my situation, it was a dropped valve seat.

I've had Manley "Inconel" valves in my boat engines , never had a problem with them.

So the valve failed, but what was the root cause? Was the rest of the valve train well arranged?

You can't just drop a hollow post like that railing a well known manufacturer without some back up data.

I don`t blame the tire when I get a flat, I blame the nail.

I always want to know who the sombeech was that left the nail !
edit , I aggree .. what was the root cause?

some movement is normal there, yours looks like to much for sure, found out it best to get springs with the matching retainers/seat from same pace, also you asked how to get certain installed height..different retainers or longer valves..

Using Manley was nice when I lived in NJ because the factory was only 20 minutes away but I stopped using them about 7 years ago. I'm not sure if the quality has improved but I stopped using Manley when I was seeing quality issues with timing sets and valves. From there I started using Ferrea valves, Cloyes or Rollmaster, Manton or Smith Brothers and Isky or PAC springs.

their endurance spring is a great one for marine use... very expensive though... PAC is also a suitable alternative... I've been running them for a while now... great spring and great value...IMO

agreed... the proper time MUST be taken when assembling cylinder heads for any application... but especially a blower app... each spring height should be carefully checked adjusted to spec then rechecked for accuracy and proper fitment then assembled... too many short cuts ... but there are two things that don't belong together.. that's cheap and good!! better luck next time Joe

On high performance setups its good practice to check the springs ends for sharp and rough edges and smooth them up. I like the beehive springs when they can be used in a set up. There light weigh coupled with a titanium retainer are good for 1000 to 1500 more RPM because of weight reduction. The variable rate of them have an advantage too.

I mis typed, it was a Manley Valve SPRING that failed obviously causing catastrophic damage to the rest of the 6.1...