Builder used different cam than specified.
 

I am building a supercharged 454. Forged crank, forged rods, forged 2399 Pistons. I am using rectangle port heads with 2.25/1.88 valves. The blower and carb is stock 525sc stuff. Per mild thunders recommendation, I told my builder I wanted a crane 134561 cam. I show up, pay for it. He then hands me a comp 11-314-4 cam card. I said this is not the cam I speced. He says ya get what I give ya. It is half way between the stock 525sc cam and the cam I requested. He is telling me it should make 610hp. What do you guys think?

I wouldn't use the comp cam,not enough degrees on the split,,should shoot for 8-10 degrees and not liking the 106icl or 110ls.I'd be looking for a used hp500efi cam,but thats me.

He builds a lot of marine engines, but it's not what I wanted and I wanted a bit bigger. I am just unhappy with quite a few things with the builder.

It is supercharged so it will be fine . I agree with stupen though especially if it was normally aspirated as the crane would be better with later closing .
You would have thought you'd get at least a phone call.. Ego engines inc??

He added $1000 to my bill with only one call to add a cam. And the cam was specifically 134561. He also said he would match summits prices. Everything was marked up.

Disapointing .. But it will be a good combo and the bill will be long forgotten when your hearing it run..
Is this a freshen? Upgrade? Before and after post will be good

Regardless if the cam he gave you will work or not, you're the customer and if he just arbitrarily changed cams on you with no discussion then I'd have a big problem with that.

It is a long block freshen with the addition of a supercharger. i have a very disorganized thread going already. I am having the motor dyno tuned at the builders shop. I know for a fact, the cam I picked makes 590hp in my setup. I am gonna give his recommendation a try. But if it falls short I am gonna be disappointed.

That was my feeling. Right or wrong, it's what I requested. Another things is I had my head guy build my heads with springs to fit the cam I specified.

He probably had the comp cam laying around already spent your money on something else and you get what you get...

I don't know. He had probably 50 marine motors there. I am sure many of them were letting him pic the cam. He could have stuck it in one of them. He claims the cam makes 510hp naturally aspirated on the dyno and will make over 600 with my blower. Desktop dyno says 566hp. Desktop dyno showed 594 with the 134561 cam I wanted.

that is the part I would have a problem with. I restore cars and I make recommendations but at the end of the day if the customer wants it painted pink and purple with lime green polka dots and the engine put in upside down and backwards that is what he gets. in my book the guy paying the bill gets what he wants not what I want to give him.

Don't use him again

i sure hope this engine is going in a boat with dry exhaust!

This would really piss me off. When that thing is on the dyno it better clear 600 hp or you should be getting it built the way you asked

Optimist: The guys knows what he is doing and you'll be better off with his recommendations.
Pessimist: Builder says 600 HP and it's tested on his dyno, it'll make 600 HP. Will it be the same 600 HP on another dyno? Do correction factors work like that? Will it be run with your exhaust, and fully dressed?


I'm not trying to throw gas on the fire - I know where you're at mentally now and it's frustrating to say the least.

I have EMI Thunder exhaust with taller risers. The water mixes in about 5 inches before the transom. Do you think I will suffer from reversion?
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/a...65182309_o.jpg

My IRS audit was less painful than this motor build.

That's a good one!

I could strangle this guy right now!

just tell him he gets to replace the engine on his dime after reversion kills it,he just might install the cam you told him to.

110lsa is definitely risking reversion on wet exhaust.

Comp 11-314-4 280ah-10 Hyd Flat Tappet
232°, 237° at .050"
Valve Lift .547", .547 "
LSA 110°
14.5° Overlap at .050"

Crane 134561 H-296-2 Hyd Flat Tappet
236°,246° at .050"
.553", .571"
LSA 114
13° Overlap at .050"

There you go. Side by side.

To me that 110 lobe center starts getting interesting because even though the Comp cam appears smaller its actually a rougher idle with a mid range power band .

Normally aspirated as I stated low idle reversion could be and issue. It is super charged now and that will change the reversion pulses at idle (Low Low idle are still a issue)

I think it will be Fine but you may want to check back in with Mild Thunder whom your original set up was with and confirm. He's been down this road with his experience.
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Engine warranty ?? Just curious

How many hp under your 600 mark

Not sure about the cam "he picked" but feel you would have a high likely hood with the 134561. I used that cam in a 454 after it being recommended by a very well know person in the industry. It was to much for the exhaust I had and I did have a reversion issue.

Mark

I have not dynoed it yet. I just have a really bad taste in my mouth from this builder.

Is he paid in full? If not hold a $1000 in a escrow, if you have no reversion and makes 600+ hp you release the money.

NA or Roots SC ? What exhaust ?

How about telling us who it is so no one else has to go down the same path?

He is paid in full. I was quoted $2300 for a rebuild of my shortblock. I gave him $1000 deposit on my credit card. He called me to pick it up and said I owed a balance of $2150. I said the only part I added was a crane cam (and i got the comp cam I didn't want). He said "you added parts on". Never even a phone call. The guy had my motor disassembled for a week, and all of my parts were looked over when he gave me the quote. I just felt that I should have at least gotten a phone call on the add ons and I should have gotten the cam I requested. The balance was paid with a check.

See post #30.

I don't think its appropriate to call out anyone here. I understand the disappointment.
Custom engine builders in most states don't have to comply with the same repair order revised estimate protocol that a auto repair shop does.

No vin or hin numbers being involved keeps them out of that world.

177 Roots blower with EMI Thunder exhaust with 3" taller risers mixing water about 5" away from the transom.

cmattj
So you think it is OK for a "custom" engine builder to give an estimate, then throw the estimate out the window?. After that " custom" builder can do what he wants and charge what he wants?.......Not in my world

If he would have given me the cam I wanted, I would be 100% satisfied. The extra $850 would have been forgotten when I start the boat. Now I either have to swap the cam or wonder if its gonna suck water every time I start the motor. His timeliness was awesome, his workmanship looks really nice, he has a great reputation for reliability in both auto and marine engines. It was not all bad.

Never said it was ok. Just that when your dealing with non BAR regulated repair you dont have the same recourse to make complaints that you would with registered vehicles or boats.

That is reality in most worlds

I think the thread should stay more on point with the Cam Question than perceptions of business practice.

I would call the credit card company and decline the charge. Remove the cam he installed give it back to him and install whatever cam you feel is correct.

Part of me wants to do that. If the cam he put in will make the power I want and not be an issue with reversion, its not worth the hassle. I would just run it if it will be ok. I guess I am trying to figure out if I have to absolutely change it.

You could always have your tails modified then you will not have to worry about it unless you get stuck in reverse on a windy day.