Cam and valvetrain longevity....??? low duration high lift...
09-15-2016, 07:43 PM
#1
Gold Member
Gold MemberThread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Olmsted Falls,Ohio Marblehead,Oh
Posts: 11,634
Likes: 0
Received 204 Likes
on
132 Posts
Cam and valvetrain longevity....??? low duration high lift...
OK, we all know the issues I had and that's all over, well kinda I hope, I have a trans issue so I may pull BOTH engines and recam because I am still not even close to happy with my results, that being said I am thinking if trans turns out to be a valve issue (that I can fix in boat) I leave engines alone till I need to refresh or have another issue (happens a lot haha) the part that worries me is the cams I have, with HIGH lift, LOW duration, and 190/590 spring pressures....
MY cam is 241/[email protected] 680/663 on a 112
So, question, this seems to be a more recent aggressive cam choice given out to buyers last couple years... I have been informed of extremely fast ramp rates and broken lifters as a result, I think that's one reason "HE" went to Johnson because talking to the engineer I was informed they can handle MUCH more spring pressure then Morels, I had one set of heads with solid spring pressures at first and didn't hurt anything ( fixed after the "issue") I am told the valves are beating the chit out of the seats, and will surface issues at about 100 hours... I am at 65, I am looking for PROOF of good or bad info and results, lots of guys seem happy with the cam choices from "him" but then say " only logged 10 hours or so" I cannot find any info supporting LONG TERM durability...
if I hear results of guys spinning cams and springs nearly identical to mine for 300-400 hours with no issues, I may leave them until refresh time, if I see pics and proof of issues I will be replacing no matter what at 65 hours..
FYI this is not a Bob bash thread, or Poor Full Force thread, this is for FACTUAL info that's been on my mind since last winter, it sucks to spend what I did and wonder if and when my valvetrain will fail and cause me headaches...
Thx for input maybe even myself can keep on track this time lol
MY cam is 241/[email protected] 680/663 on a 112
So, question, this seems to be a more recent aggressive cam choice given out to buyers last couple years... I have been informed of extremely fast ramp rates and broken lifters as a result, I think that's one reason "HE" went to Johnson because talking to the engineer I was informed they can handle MUCH more spring pressure then Morels, I had one set of heads with solid spring pressures at first and didn't hurt anything ( fixed after the "issue") I am told the valves are beating the chit out of the seats, and will surface issues at about 100 hours... I am at 65, I am looking for PROOF of good or bad info and results, lots of guys seem happy with the cam choices from "him" but then say " only logged 10 hours or so" I cannot find any info supporting LONG TERM durability...
if I hear results of guys spinning cams and springs nearly identical to mine for 300-400 hours with no issues, I may leave them until refresh time, if I see pics and proof of issues I will be replacing no matter what at 65 hours..
FYI this is not a Bob bash thread, or Poor Full Force thread, this is for FACTUAL info that's been on my mind since last winter, it sucks to spend what I did and wonder if and when my valvetrain will fail and cause me headaches...
Thx for input maybe even myself can keep on track this time lol
Last edited by Full Force; 09-15-2016 at 08:55 PM.
09-15-2016, 08:10 PM
#4
Registered
iTrader: (3)
I been running mine since 2012. While I don't have 300 hours on them, they are in the 150 hour range. Spinning close to 6000rpm in the boat, and have pulled them 6500RPM on the dyno with no signs of valvetrain issues. Last spring setup was 180/480 lbs , new setup came in around 200/500 lbs. These are the 4603 series, not even the "high rpm" 5045 series.
The 4603 lifters "recommendation" was for continuous operation to 6600rpm, with spring pressures of 160lbs seat, and around 450 open if I recall.
The 5045 lifters, continuous operation of 7000RPM, with a spring pressure of 200-225 seat, and 500-575 open.
Morel supplied, and continues to supply, Howards, Lunati, Isky, Crower, PBM/ERSON, Bullet, and some others with those two lifters.
I have no experience with the Johnsons, but can't say I have heard anything bad about them, and the axle oiling is a nice feature they offer on the hyd lifter. As far as the johnsens being able to handle "more" spring psi than a morel, I call bs. If its well known the morels can and have handled 600lbs of open pressure and some pretty high rpm, I can't see a reason why you would ever need more spring psi than that. At that point, you should be looking at a solid lifter.
One of the other "selling points" of the morels, was the .750 roller wheel diameter, where most stock and oem style lifters had a .700 wheel like the johnsons.
As to the original question, it would be good to hear who has had what results. Since this was your first season on this build, I would probably at minimum do a compression test, and then do a leakdown check and see how the valves are sealing. Then maybe take valve covers off and take a look at the springs and a simple visual check on things. If all is good and healthy, I'd prob just run it.
09-15-2016, 08:16 PM
#5
Gold Member
Gold MemberThread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Olmsted Falls,Ohio Marblehead,Oh
Posts: 11,634
Likes: 0
Received 204 Likes
on
132 Posts
that was just my assumption on why the Johnsons come into play, no clue for sure..
Yes compression and leakdown will happen in or out of boat to see where I am at, if engines out they get cams, then again we have had that discussion lol
Yes compression and leakdown will happen in or out of boat to see where I am at, if engines out they get cams, then again we have had that discussion lol
I think thats pure crapola. I know a ton of guys, who are running ALOT of spring pressure on morels lifters, as well as alot of RPM. Thats probably one of the reasons they were the lifter of choice when It came to hydraulic roller stuff that last decade or so. Prior to the morels, you almost never heard of guys turning a HYD roller bbc to 7000rpm.
I been running mine since 2012. While I don't have 300 hours on them, they are in the 150 hour range. Spinning close to 6000rpm in the boat, and have pulled them 6500RPM on the dyno with no signs of valvetrain issues. Last spring setup was 180/480 lbs , new setup came in around 200/500 lbs. These are the 4603 series, not even the "high rpm" 5045 series.
The 4603 lifters "recommendation" was for continuous operation to 6600rpm, with spring pressures of 160lbs seat, and around 450 open if I recall.
The 5045 lifters, continuous operation of 7000RPM, with a spring pressure of 200-225 seat, and 500-575 open.
Morel supplied, and continues to supply, Howards, Lunati, Isky, Crower, PBM/ERSON, Bullet, and some others with those two lifters.
I have no experience with the Johnsons, but can't say I have heard anything bad about them, and the axle oiling is a nice feature they offer on the hyd lifter. As far as the johnsens being able to handle "more" spring psi than a morel, I call bs. If its well known the morels can and have handled 600lbs of open pressure and some pretty high rpm, I can't see a reason why you would ever need more spring psi than that. At that point, you should be looking at a solid lifter.
One of the other "selling points" of the morels, was the .750 roller wheel diameter, where most stock and oem style lifters had a .700 wheel like the johnsons.
As to the original question, it would be good to hear who has had what results. Since this was your first season on this build, I would probably at minimum do a compression test, and then do a leakdown check and see how the valves are sealing. Then maybe take valve covers off and take a look at the springs and a simple visual check on things. If all is good and healthy, I'd prob just run it.
I been running mine since 2012. While I don't have 300 hours on them, they are in the 150 hour range. Spinning close to 6000rpm in the boat, and have pulled them 6500RPM on the dyno with no signs of valvetrain issues. Last spring setup was 180/480 lbs , new setup came in around 200/500 lbs. These are the 4603 series, not even the "high rpm" 5045 series.
The 4603 lifters "recommendation" was for continuous operation to 6600rpm, with spring pressures of 160lbs seat, and around 450 open if I recall.
The 5045 lifters, continuous operation of 7000RPM, with a spring pressure of 200-225 seat, and 500-575 open.
Morel supplied, and continues to supply, Howards, Lunati, Isky, Crower, PBM/ERSON, Bullet, and some others with those two lifters.
I have no experience with the Johnsons, but can't say I have heard anything bad about them, and the axle oiling is a nice feature they offer on the hyd lifter. As far as the johnsens being able to handle "more" spring psi than a morel, I call bs. If its well known the morels can and have handled 600lbs of open pressure and some pretty high rpm, I can't see a reason why you would ever need more spring psi than that. At that point, you should be looking at a solid lifter.
One of the other "selling points" of the morels, was the .750 roller wheel diameter, where most stock and oem style lifters had a .700 wheel like the johnsons.
As to the original question, it would be good to hear who has had what results. Since this was your first season on this build, I would probably at minimum do a compression test, and then do a leakdown check and see how the valves are sealing. Then maybe take valve covers off and take a look at the springs and a simple visual check on things. If all is good and healthy, I'd prob just run it.
09-15-2016, 08:21 PM
#7
Registered
iTrader: (7)
If I recall you were 241/246-670 or so. I may have stated this in one of your other threads however valako runs like something real close 236/244-707 gross lift on the intakes. Custom ground hyd roller and runs solid roller and springs. No issues. Been running that way for years and that lift is with 1.8 rockers. You'd think if any combo would have premature valve train wear or failure that would but seems to be pretty trouble free.
09-15-2016, 08:30 PM
#8
Registered
iTrader: (7)
Seems like I've heard of issues when running the 5045's under 6k because of the high rpm design. Can't remember if it was they wouldn't pump up all the way or what. It was a while back I read an article. Not sure how true it is but seems like most use the 4603's with success for the most part at or under the 6,500 plus or minus.
There's something to be said using the recommended lifter for desired cam.
There's something to be said using the recommended lifter for desired cam.
09-15-2016, 08:30 PM
#9
Registered
iTrader: (3)
If I were you Tim, I would pull engines and change the cams. At least you will sleep at night, even if you were to gain nothing. This stuff is going to put you in the nut house and it's not worth it. You're taking years off your life over a couple grand.
09-15-2016, 08:32 PM
#10
Registered
iTrader: (1)
