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-   -   Solid roller adjustments or check intervals? (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/343026-solid-roller-adjustments-check-intervals.html)

Knot 4 Me 12-02-2016 08:04 AM

Stay hydraulic. Most if not all all the 540 packages offered by builders use hydraulic. I realize you want to top the speed number the older mills put up before you dropped the serious coin on the current setup. At this point, I'd take whatever you get for a top end number in return for a trouble-free setup for years to come. As others have stated, now that you are aligned with a builder go with his recommendations based on your performance goals. No need to go wild on exotic parts for a mid 600 HP mill that can stay buttoned up for 300 hours.

Black Baja 12-02-2016 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by dunnitagain (Post 4506105)
Why would you want to add more maintenance to your boat? Leave it Hydraulic , Solid Lifters are for High RPM ( above 7000 ) they also Induce high frequency harmonics into the valvetrain . They are loud , they need to be adjusted Hot , they are a pain in the ass . Yes people use them , stud girdles , shaft rockers , big pushrods etc ,etc , but why ? Good Hydraulic rollers are unbeatable in these kind of applications . Its kind of like riding a Hardtail chop compared to a Softail Bagger for your valvetrain. You wont notice any improvement in performance with comparable cam profiles , just noise and maintenance on the solids. They chatter like a hog eatin hickory nuts when they are running , it will scare the **** out of you the first time you fire it up with the solids it makes so much noise .

Some of us want that every last bit. We want semi-radical lobes. So what do you do? Buy the best hydraulic lifter on the market? Well, the problem with that is availability. We ordered 3 sets of .904 hydraulics and 9 months later they were not yet available. Then you install them in a new motor spin the motor over 2 revolutions to adjust the valves. Prime it and start it up. Guess what... Not all the lifters pump up. Now what? Take two sets and make one? What about the other set you need for another motor? Now what? Wait another 9+ months to get another set. 2 years to build a motor? When the good ones work no doubt they work great. But do to the type of machining involved to make a performance oriented hydraulic sometimes you get a good set and sometimes you don't. The company that makes the good stuff has not increased there footprint in years but yet every year there sales go up and up. So what do you do? Again not all of us want stock warmed up motors. So you buy the best Solid lifter you can get your hands on use common sense when you set the valvetrain up and be responsible with maintenance of the valvetrain. Use parts that are easily accessible if a failure is getting ready to happen so you can have the parts the next day. A well setup solid lifter isn't any noisier than a hydraulic in a performance boat with dry exhaust that so loud you can here yourself think. That's my .02

Panther 12-02-2016 08:20 AM

All about preference in my opinion... But for all out top end power above 6k rpm, you can't beat a solid and that's proven. But for the every day guy/gal that I build engines for, the hydraulic in a lower rpm engine is best in my opinion.

For me, if I could have gotten to my center valve covers without it being a hassle (32 1/2" centers), I would have kept the solids. Over the years I've run solids in a few different engines I've built and for the most part was happy with the exception of one set (3) in a 42' Fountain back in the late 90's that had an aggresive Ultradyne solid in it that would beat the hell out of seats and lifters but made good power.

On the flip side, you guys should try adjusting your hydraulic lifters by bottoming them out and then backing off .020 which is determined by the pitch size of your studs. A lot of guys in the field have tested this method on spintrons including Kasse with excellent results over 7k rpm. Also, if you have a lifter not pump up or the plunger fail for some reason you only have .020 lash and it wont ruin the cam. Lastly, if you have one that wont pump up, remove the valve cover and adjust the rocker arm with the engine running. The lifter will pump right up a majority of the time. I ran into this a few years ago with a set of Johnson's. This process isn't in the service manual.

MILD THUNDER 12-02-2016 08:27 AM

Panther, if you had say, a morel lifter, with .143 of plunger travel. Then adjust it down to .020 from bottoming out. If the lifter was to pump up, is there a risk of the valve and piston coming together?

Panther 12-02-2016 08:31 AM

Adjust the lash all the way down until the plunger bottoms out, then back off .020 based on your thread pitch. You're leaving .020 lash inside the plunger.

Black Baja 12-02-2016 08:33 AM


Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER (Post 4506127)
Panther, if you had say, a morel lifter, with .143 of plunger travel. Then adjust it down to .020 from bottoming out. If the lifter was to pump up, is there a risk of the valve and piston coming together?

That's why you set your springs up close to coil bind...

SB 12-02-2016 08:34 AM

(.143-0.20) x 1.7 = .2091

Havoc40 12-02-2016 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER (Post 4506127)
Panther, if you had say, a morel lifter, with .143 of plunger travel. Then adjust it down to .020 from bottoming out. If the lifter was to pump up, is there a risk of the valve and piston coming together?

Yes, there would be that possibility if the valvetrain were to become unstable. As long as the valvetrain is well sorted out, I wouldn't see it happening as much say a manual trans street car and missing a shift. When that happens it goes over the RPM limit of the valvetrain, lofts/bounces and over pumps the lifter. Realistically if you wanted to run that little of travel, just buy a short travel. In essence it's achieving the same exact thing without the risk of PtV problems.

Usually when they don't pump-up it's because of a trapped air bubble. Running them deep sometimes works, or backing them off to almost 0 lash sometimes works. It happens more frequently with heavier oils...and usually all that's needed is oil temps getting up around 160-180.

Black Baja 12-02-2016 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by Panther (Post 4506130)
Adjust the lash all the way down until the plunger bottoms out, then back off .020 based on your thread pitch. You're leaving .020 lash inside the plunger.

That's basically what we do. The only problem with this is because the lifter must be honed to get the tolerances tight a lot of times there is taper. Once you run the cup down the taper in the lifter grabs the cup and your screwed the lifter will never come back up. Sometimes you can bang it on a block of wood and it will release but usually not. If the lifter had a hole all the way through the bottom the taper would be a problem cause you could run the hone all the way through but it's not so sometimes you get a good set sometimes you don't.

Black Baja 12-02-2016 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by Havoc40 (Post 4506135)
Yes, there would be that possibility if the valvetrain were to become unstable. As long as the valvetrain is well sorted out, I wouldn't see it happening as much say a manual trans street car and missing a shift. When that happens it goes over the RPM limit of the valvetrain, lofts/bounces and over pumps the lifter. Realistically if you wanted to run that little of travel, just buy a short travel. In essence it's achieving the same exact thing without the risk of PtV problems.

Usually when they don't pump-up it's because of a trapped air bubble. Running them deep sometimes works, or backing them off to almost 0 lash sometimes works. It happens more frequently with heavier oils...and usually all that's needed is oil temps getting up around 160-180.

And thus the other issue with Hydraulics. Hot thin oil (less than 50wt) in a boat is a recipe for disaster.


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