PPI before purchasing engines?
 

Im tentatively planning to purchase a pair of engines from another member on OSO in order to repower my boat. The engines are about 500 miles away near Salem Massachusetts, have been rebuilt and are sitting on pallets in the member's garage. This is my first time buying motors like this, and I'm no engines expert. Would it be reasonable and helpful to arrange some kind of pre-purchase inspection by a nearby engine shop in order to check if there are no obvious pitfalls with the motors? If so what should i specifically ask them to check and any ballpark on costs to do it? Finally, if anyone knows a reliable motors guy near Salem, suggestions are welcome. Thanks folks.

who is the member?most of the guys around here are honest and can be trusted.

Assuming you're talking about relatively expensive performance engines that are advertised as being in great shape / low hours, I'd want them run on a dyno. If they perform as advertised and don't blow up you ( the buyer) pay for the dyno and get some valuable information and piece of mind for your money. If anything goes wrong with them on the dyno then the seller pays and picks up the pieces while you head home.

Member Genob here on Oso. I have no reason to distrust him, just want to consider if there are some general guidelines i should follow in order to avoid regrets. Motors apparently have zero hours on rebuilds by Thunderboat Bob. BCK If i can get the dyno sheets from when Bob rebuilt would you generally just go with those or would you still like to see them run independently?

I guess it depends on how much you trust the seller and whether you can talk to the builder. Depending on the circumstances I'd want them run to verify they are what the seller claims and and they aren't damaged. My idea sounds reasonable to me. It's just too much money to take a chance on in my opinion.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...k-rebuilt.html

If you don't run them on dyno pay parts price at best, does he have full build sheets, parts list? If it's hp 500's it's easier to take a chance then on a set of 1000's all makes a difference

was told was done to them
HUNDERBOLT ENGINES
Mercruiser 502 -500hp– 575+ hp engine package
1-502 gen 5 block , std bore , 4 bolt mains ,one pc rear main , honed , ck aline bore , cleaned, prepped , new cam bearings
2- steel crankshaft, 4.00 stroke , polished , balanced with assemble .one pc rear main ,cleveite 77 bearings
3- 7/16 dimple connecting rods , performance rod bolts, cleveite 77 performance bearings
4-forged std 502 performance pistons , performance wrist pins , mahl plasma rings , 9;1 compression , 93 + octane
5- crane marine performance hyd roller cam, mhp 300, hyd roller lifters , cloyes timing chain, crane roller rockers , 3/8 pushrods .080 , timing cover , degreed + 4
6-World/merlin after market performance heads , grump model, ss valves , performance valve job, valve springs , harden retainers , port clean up , surface , proper spring psi for hyd roller cam. alum valve covers
7-team G alum intake , spacer, throttle plate , 830 Holley carb , flame arrestor, fuel lines , fuel filter bracket
8- 8-Qt oil pan, hv oil pump, remote oil system , hoses, hd oil cooler , race oil and race filter
9- mercruiser thunder bolt ignition system , dist, brain box, new cap, rotor, spark plugs
32 degree total advance
10- water pump , with pulley,
11- harmonic balancer , lower pulley, alt bracket, mis adjusting brackets , engine wiring harness, alternator , ,bravo flywheel,
12- mercruiser sea pump with fuel pump , new impeller kit ,
13- Build up on engine, assemble, blue print , set clearances, degree cam, set lifter per loads,
14- dyno engine , break in, oil change , load test , performance test , air fuel adjustment , set timing . change oil with VR-1 20-50 racing oil
15-dress engine with marine hardware , paint engine ,
16- hp starter , with spec bolts ,

Havent been successful finding an option to dyno anywhere near the seller, but have spoken with the builder and may proceed without the dyno run. How do people on here generally conclude a sale like this? Simple contract for motors in as-is condition to be dropped off at agreed shipper with a couple of days or receiving a bank transfer? I was going to ask to do via paypal as they have buyers protection (Paypal can claw the funds back if what is delivered doesnt match what has been promised), but did a search and saw that many on OSO are dubious of paypal for scams. Just curious what is the normal method, thanks.

i would make the trip to the engines,do a visual inspection and if i felt good at that point i would tell him to load them up on the truck,then pay him in cash and head back home.if they turn out to be junk you know where he lives,and he knows that.

This ^. Unfortunately there are some scammers on here. Do some research on the seller. That's what I did before I drove to Tennessee to buy my 525 from "Thuderusone". Everyone spoke highly of him.

PayPal would be ok for deposit once price is settled and then you and seller agree on how balance is to be paid. He may not want PayPal even if you cover the fees. He's gotta be careful on his end also. Once you step into the performance world of engines warranty is limited if any. I think if you've talked to builder and seller you need to come to a conclusion and have trust. Also is it possible to get copy of receipts? If you feel right by it then move forward if not stop. Seller also sold a 10 meter correct? If it was sold to an OSO member find out who it was and maybe they saw the engines while there and if the boat was what he described it to be.

How does this relate to the engines you're buying?
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...bad-motor.html

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/w...ml#post4455755
Hurt motor was an mpi

K hold up.

So they were hurt at one point then put bsck together to sell? I dont trust ANYBODY when it comes to building motors but myself. Not mentioning any names but i was on a dyno at a shop and watched a fountain motor get yanked out that was hurt, pan pulled, parts changed while motor hung in air with pan off and slammed back together, the icing on the cake was the clear rtv that pan went back on with while oil dripped on ground!

PM sent to OP with message of interest.

The "bad" motor Gene posted about was from an earlier set that were in his fountain. He then bought a set of 502's from another member who had them rebuilt by Thunderboat Bob, but sold off his boat before installing the motors which is why they are now available and apparently still sitting on pallets in his garage. I dont have any reason to distrust Gene and he seems like a decent guy, i just want to have as much security in the purchase as reasonably possible, cant afford to screw it up. Unfortunately haven't been able to find a dyno shop near him (i did find one they want "at least 1500" to dyno the pair but wont give me a set price, "it could be more" as they charge by the hour) so i haven't yet closed the deal with seller. Im going to do some more calling around tomorrow, and also check how far Gene is willing to drive to drop them off for dyno-ing. Thanks for the advice folks.

Thanks for the PM

I could only guess who that might have been - but really not a guess at all. I hear you on this loud and clear. It cracks me when boat owners advertise their motors were just rebuilt - that means nothing period as how were they rebuilt - who did the machine work and what detailed machine work was done - hell a guy with a honing stone on the end of a cordless hand drill still claims he can rebuild engines great . Also whom did the rebuilding.

I have seen many crappy rebuilt jobs for marine engines - poor machine work - old parts mix match with new parts -- used parts that should never been put back on the build - part installs that made no sense and very poor wiring a lot of the times. Poor fuel systems and used fuel system parts installed back on rebuilds, that one kills me.

would the letters KID be in the screen name?

oh god... RUN!!!!

Does he have a Apache?

So the guy who is selling these blew up his old motors and bought these from someone as replacements. Now he's telling you what was told to him when he purchased them which makes you the third owner since rebuild correct? How much time has passed since rebuilds? They were never installed by the last 2 owners ? I'd at least want to look at them in person. Is anyone here vouching for the guy or the engines?

I guess we just need to find out who thunder boat bob is with 40 yrs experience. Anyone???

Guys, I know most of you don't know me well unless you were racing offshore in the mid 90's - early 2000's. I use Bob at Thunder Boats to do my engine work, he has rebuilt a full set almost identical to these for me. When he was doing mine, he showed me this set of motors and the dyno sheets. He is an old offshore racer and engine builder from the 80's and 90's. I referred these motors to Genob when he called trying to buy my motors but they where already under contract with an OSO member in Michigan. I was very impressed by the rebuilds Bob did for me, He showed me every part from teardown thru assembly. Very honest and refused to use any part that was questionable. He has a full marine engine business and his clean room is large and impressive. I got to see one of these run on the dyno and the carb be fine tuned to the engine. The motors are fully dressed, ready to install. The price was $15,000 and it's the same that they are forsale at now. These have not been installed and where dyno'd around Sept of last year. If I was in the market, I would trust these motors!

I talked to blown today, on the phone and shared this same info with him.

If I recall Thunder Bob was the owner of Thunder Boats back till 1993 or around those years -- he was located in ILL or Michigan area. He sold Thunder Boats to Pat who in turn is Active Thunder if I recall all of this correctly.

Thunderboat Bob is Bob Oetringer. So, to the op- you've spoken to Bob O. and he recalls the builds and the parts and dynoing last Sept.etc?

I don't get it.

777Offshore you are saying you and this other guy both had 2 motors for each of you built, neither never used them, and put them up for sale ?

I did reach 777offshore by phone today to get some more background info and he was very helpful. He also clarified the history which i had misunderstood (777offshore didnt buy and sell the motors to Gene, he just connected him with Bob). Gene had previously told me this but i got mixed up about it.

Yes i had spoken to Bob previously and he verified building these motors. Unfortunately Gene lost or never took the dyno sheets with him after purchasing them, but speaking to 777 gave me more security about it as an independent 3rd party. Im still debating whether i want to spend the additional 1600 to get them re-dynoed but either way will try to close this deal now immediately.

Just probably some confusion when 777offshore responded to ad genob had in the wanted section looking for a pair of engines. Understandable I guess. OP just needs to know who is going to stand behind them I would imagine. I would anyway. Just clear it up prior to sale.

I'd book a cheap flight and pack a plug wrench and a bore scope. 10 minutes and back to the airport. 300.00 plus or minus insurance policy.

I wouldn't concern myself with dynoing as I would what I mentioned above. Regarding the power you gotta look at combo used and would it legitimately make 590. I've never used that particular combo so I can't say but sounds within reason. As long as it's close and there fresh it's all good.

Let me try to clear this up. First of all I have nothing to gain by this sale, just trying to help!

I had a set of my motors rebuilt to be sold. They went to Michigan and are in an OSO members boat and running great. He was very happy with what he got. My buyer flew down and visited with Bob and I while one of the motors was still apart and the other had just been dyno'd. It was at that time that Bob had shown me the pair of motors in question.

All I was trying to say, is the pair being sold is a good pair of motors and I would feel safe buying them. If it makes the buyer feel more comfortable, I would recommend going to see the motors in person and if you feel it to be necessary, pick one motor at random and have it dyno'd. This should cost about $1000 total including the trip and be a reasonable insurance policy.

Blown,,,, you could ck out Reid's Automotive, 909 Temple St. (route27) Whitman, MA 781.857.2500 .. 99% sure he has a Dyno up and running..Ck his web site out too.

Or try Boucher's Race Engines, 269 Haverhill St. Rowley, MA 978.948.7373 ask for Glenn, think he is still there...gd luck He has a dyno vid on his site ck it out.