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90nova 06-03-2017 07:25 PM

Lack of oil to rockers at idle concerns
 
Purchased a used 454 last season and upon startup had blue smoke coming out of exhaust. Found exhaust valve seals leaking and excessive valve guide clearance. Decided to go with a new set of Merlin heads instead of rebuilding the old ones. Just got it up and running again and noticed no oil up to rockers at idle. At 1200rpm I can see A small amount of oil film and doesn't really show a steady trickle until 2000rpm. Oil pressure is around 75psi cold on my manual gauge and lifters are quiet. It's a mark IV block with retrofit roller lifters and comp steel roller rockers. Should I have any concerns about this? Don't want to wear out valve guides and seals on new heads from lack of oiling.

20-50w oil using stock mercruiser remote filter and earls 501ERL oil Tstat

90nova 06-03-2017 07:54 PM


90nova 06-03-2017 07:58 PM


dereknkathy 06-03-2017 09:24 PM

And this is with around 50 psi at 1200? There is plenty of pressure at the lifters. What lifters? Some may meter oil differently than otheds.

90nova 06-03-2017 09:46 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by dereknkathy (Post 4559336)
And this is with around 50 psi at 1200? There is plenty of pressure at the lifters. What lifters? Some may meter oil differently than otheds.

cam and rockers are from comp, so I'm guessing the lifters are as well. Didn't have any label on the link bar between them like most do.

sutphen 30 06-04-2017 09:07 AM

I'd pull the lifters and look where the oil feed hole is,if its to high on the lifter,it will restrict oil to the top end.know this all to well.

ICDEDPPL 06-04-2017 09:09 AM

I don`t know what normal is since my spring oilers piss oil everywhere up top but this seems pretty dry too :








sutphen 30 06-04-2017 09:20 AM

thats not normal,,this is alittle better


dereknkathy 06-04-2017 09:39 AM

So this has to be a lifter issue, correct? If inadequate oil pressure at the lifter, it would be same throughout bottom end? Could too little or too much preload effect oil metering?

underpsi68 06-04-2017 09:39 AM

That is not normal. You should see oil coming out of the rockets st idle like I the video just about my post.

90nova 06-04-2017 10:17 AM


Originally Posted by dereknkathy (Post 4559392)
So this has to be a lifter issue, correct? If inadequate oil pressure at the lifter, it would be same throughout bottom end? Could too little or too much preload effect oil metering?


I took my time setting the preload and making sure valvetrain geometry was correct. Didn't give any attention to the lifter oil feed height compared to the lifter bore feed hole. Guess that could be the issue.

dereknkathy 06-04-2017 10:47 AM

So, how much preload did you set? Maybe try a bit more or less. I can't see any manufacturer setting oil hole at the wrong height. I doubt even a big change in base circle would move hole far enough. Plus, I would think if oil hole location was off, it wouldn't change with rpm. Its not like the lifter moves farther at 2000 than 1200. And these are retrofit lifters so I doubt they are for a gen 6 block, which I bet has same oil gallery height as 4-5 blocks anyway

SB 06-04-2017 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by dereknkathy (Post 4559406)
I can't see any manufacturer setting oil hole at the wrong height. I doubt even a big change in base circle would move hole far enough.

This may open a can of worms as this has most definitely happened.

90nova 06-04-2017 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by dereknkathy (Post 4559406)
So, how much preload did you set? Maybe try a bit more or less. I can't see any manufacturer setting oil hole at the wrong height. I doubt even a big change in base circle would move hole far enough. Plus, I would think if oil hole location was off, it wouldn't change with rpm. Its not like the lifter moves farther at 2000 than 1200. And these are retrofit lifters so I doubt they are for a gen 6 block, which I bet has same oil gallery height as 4-5 blocks anyway

preload is .030. Motor has around 100hrs on it from previous owner. Other than valve guide/seal wear on the original heads everything looked good. I did pull a lifter and checked rollers. All looked good. I'm out of time to wrench on this thing with my job picking up so a complete tear down won't be possible for a while. Thinking about teeing off the oil gauge tap with a needle valve and run a copper line to valve cover and make a spray bar by drilling small holes in it. Total rig, but I need to get out on the water to keep my sanity. Lol

dereknkathy 06-04-2017 12:42 PM

I just compared gen 6 roller to mk4 flat lifter. The cut-out around the waist is about an 8th inch lower on the flat mk4 lifter. I am sure people run retro lifters in 6's when the dog bones would restrict lift, but I have never heard of a retro lifter made specifically for a gen 6. You bought engine used. He might have bought lifters used. Loosen lifters up to no preload. No better? Tighten down to the max they can be set at. No better? Replace the lifters. Pull 1 and put next to flat tappet lifter to compare oil cut-away location just in case, but these lifters just ain't pumping oil. Another thought. You are looking at 1 lifter. Pull valve covers and run engine. Messy but... it might be a couple of gummed up lifters.

90nova 06-04-2017 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by dereknkathy (Post 4559430)
I just compared gen 6 roller to mk4 flat lifter. The cut-out around the waist is about an 8th inch lower on the flat mk4 lifter. I am sure people run retro lifters in 6's when the dog bones would restrict lift, but I have never heard of a retro lifter made specifically for a gen 6. You bought engine used. He might have bought lifters used. Loosen lifters up to no preload. No better? Tighten down to the max they can be set at. No better? Replace the lifters. Pull 1 and put next to flat tappet lifter to compare oil cut-away location just in case, but these lifters just ain't pumping oil. Another thought. You are looking at 1 lifter. Pull valve covers and run engine. Messy but... it might be a couple of gummed up lifters.

i can see all the lifters between the fill cap and breather holes. They all have the same volume of oil coming out of them. I have to pull the exhaust off to remove the valve covers, also there is a b&m 420 blower bolted on top so it's a chore to disassemble for access to the lifters. I have around 200hrs in this boat doing a new transom, rebuilding outdrive and rigging motor in. I'm out of energy and time. May have to wait till work slows down and disassemble it.


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