How much more useable HP can be obtained by porting edelbrock oval port heads for use on a 509" 10:1 turning 5400-5600. and what would be the estimated $ per Hp. Is porting generally worth 10 hp or 50hp and more. thanks.

50 or more.:D

Who's engines are they YOURS or HIS? Whose money is it yours or his? I think we can conclude that a business is in business to make a profit but, is it okay if a customer spends his own money as he seems fit?


The engines are mine until there paid for. I am in the busniess of offering a performance engine which has taken time to perfect with years of experience. With the price comes a mission to make sure they perform with an ongoing research and development program to keep my customers informed of any updates and upgrades. This is my passion and my life. I cannot jeopardize what I have built by letting someone come in midway in the project to try their redicules trick of the week. If I am going to fail I want it to by my hand not someone elses.

Yes, the customer can spend his money on what he wants after the bill is paid and the engine leaves the shop.

What is port matching the intake worth 5 hp or 20 hp or more??

How about the guy who gets a verbal quote for a set of fully ported heads, pays in advance, trys to be a gentleman with the shop doing the work about getting his heads done on time as he was promised and then when he comes to pick his stuff up (6 months late) somehow they lose his invoice that he has paid in advance on and now his bill has jumped $500 or more----SUPRISE! What's a guy going to do then?----he just wants his stuff back so he pays.



Remember the first time around he did not want his heads fully ported. We negotiated that. I remember him saying I wanted a mild motor that idled good, small cam, small carb. I dont want to be the fastest guy out there. It was the year later when he wanted to pull out the stops and go full bore. In order to increase airflow I had to report the combustion chambers intake ports,exhaust ports and valve grind. In other words the whole thing over again. Now, yes I gave him an estimate before the carbide hit the aluminum. I did what it took to get the job done. Unfortunetly it took much longer than I expected. I was not going to stop after the first head and readjust the time and effort on the second set. Maybe he insisted on pre paying because you could see an opertunity to take advantage of me.

If he remembers he came into the shop one day saying his boat was junk all the stringers had to be changed and he wouldn't be boating this year and to put his project on the back burner. Two months? later(in the busiest part of the season) he comes back wanting his motors asap. We cant drop what were doing and put him back in line, he has to go back to the end of the line, thats only fair. To be fair to the rest of my customers I should have charged full price to fully port his heads and even though I personnaly went to the dyno by his choice at a different dyno facility than the original dyno knowing he broke no. 1 rule NO CHARGE. Then we went back to first dyno NO CHARGE so he could learn rule no. 1. Yes I dont know what happened to his invoice it was not intentionally lost.

Ironman, how is that carb working for you? I think a port match only will give you 5 to 10 HP depending how off the ports are. Jim V is the guy to answer that question.
Hey Jim and KAAMA, sometimes business sucks! Lessons learned for both parties.:cool:

Jim, How much HP for a full intake port on a 6000 to 6500 RPM 496? The intake is a Merlin with and adaptor to go to a 1050 Dominator. The adaptor is blended with the intake by me and my dremmel.;) How much $$ for a full intake port?
Thanks.

This is the last post I will make on this issue unless he starts more crap. This guy was in my shop sometimes three to four hours a day sometimes working on his boat NO CHARGE other times on my computer( one time his was sick with a virus I think) anyway when he left mine was sick too. However he said he would take full responsibilty for my computer being broke and gave me a number for his buddie 35 miles away. His buddie said he can look at it maybe the end of next week.
I loaned him my plastic block so he could mock up for header fit and I think he drove his boat with his headers on my plastic block thru six cornfields on his way home before he realized the headers and motor mounts removed themselves. The helicoils and plastic pieces stayed with the headers and motormounts that were in the bottom of the boat.
I spent countless hours explaining my theories on heads and motors (funny he usually showed up the same time on fridays). Friday is pizza day around here. I would hate to add up all the long distance phone calls from the times I had to call the cam manufacturer (and that rocker arm company) so he could make sure he had the right cam and make sure they got his credit card number.

The two biggest causes of engine failure is lack of communation and money. Bottom line is there are two sides to every story.

WETTE VETTE

Which heads do you have? What valve size? $450.00 to fully port the intake although I dont think you will see a big gain.
Do you want the intake manifold ported or the heads? thanks JimV

The heads are already ported (325 Pro 1). I am wondering about the intake manifold.;)

Wette Vette, the carb works ok not a real big difference from the 800 that I was using maybe 100-150 more rpms and more in colder weather. The midrange 4-5k is really crisp though compared to the stocker. Did you port your own Pro1's. I think I will be having mine done this winter. The Ironman.

Ironman, glad to hear the carb worked out for you. I had my Pro 1's professionally ported when I bought them. I would be afraid to take a grinder to a brand new set of heads.:cool:

KAAMA,

Glad I didn't have to deal with that back home!! What a mess! My mechanic only had my boat 3 months. I had a new engine tricked out. Supercharger and new IMCO steering and outdrive on in that time!!

KAAMA,

And you never told me about this when we took it out! I guees you were trying to be the nice guy and not bad mouth anybody.

WETTE VETTE

I dont think you will see any major hp gains by fully porting the manifold. Port matching and reworking the radii in the plenium would benifet the most. I could do that for you for $150.00. Thanks, JimV

Mark

I remember you telling me about your bad experience with your last builder. I think you told me he screwed you too. I can see a pattern here.

Here is what I will do to put an end to this. You think I owe you two grand. I will credit you $2,500.00 towards parts and labor on your next set of engines. Obviously they will have to be assembled by us and the parts purchased by us. Now I know what you are thinking, Im going to mark up the price to cover the $2,500. What I will do is charge the prices out of the Summit catalog. I will make this offer good for the next five years with all sincerity, JimV. Now that should make you happy


Oh BTW Mark your welcome to come in to my shop anytime pizza's on me.

Boy that sounds like a hell of a counteroffer JimV, I would have to say you are putting your work where your mouth on that issue. Nothing like making the customer happy.

JimV in all honesty have you built or dynoed a motor with CNC heads and then ported them and dynoed that same combo again. Personally I like the idea of a custom port tailored to fit the marine motor. How much power is gainable from CNC to full hand port in a marine application in all honesty say at 5600 RPM. Considering that it takes something in the neighborhood of 15-20 hp to gain 100 RPM, you see what I am driving at?

Looks like a fair deal to me Mark.......keeping your customers happy is the name of the game....

No BS I have not done an A/B on the dyno, I cant even get Dart to send me a cnc'd head so I can flow it, I really dont want to buy one. I would expect to see big differences in the torque in the midrange but I cant answer your second question. I have talked to guys that got 4-5% more air out of a CNC ported head.

Jimv- Way to go wish I has some engine builders down here like you. When I heard Kaama's complaints I did not know he was talking about you.

Now back to subject at hand. When I get my AFR heads in I can go & have them flowed. Will this give you any good information if I do? Will numbers from one different alot from another? Will we be able to compare apples for apples. I was not planing on doing any changes to my boat except change heads, & replumb the intercooler to get water before all the other coolers. Only big factor will be I will be making run when air temps will be in 60's & water temps in 60's. Best speed this spring was 104, best this summer with 85degree water was 95.7. All speeds on GPS digital speedo.

Turbojack

If the flow work is done on a superflow bench the numbers should be accurate. The only variable would be the bore size their using on the flowbench. That would be great if you could post the results.

Jim what would it cost to port my Merlin Ovals????not anything to extream ......what kind of gains are seen with porting on them?

Glad you guys resolved this...I was disappointed to see the situation deteriorate between two individuals who obviously have a long history. Sounds like Jim's a stand-up guy!

Dyno

The intakes need a bowl blend, with the camshaft your running I dont think you will see big gains as long as the port is stable (as far as airflow) up to max lift. The exhausts could use a little more work in the shorturns. Your looking at about $350.00 for the port work which would include some light deburring in the combustion chamber. I would guess a 20hp gain thanks



Thanks Sean