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Originally Posted by Mohavvalley
(Post 4635136)
First off I owe crude intentions an apology, I was wrong, I had my numbers reversed. Mark 4 covers have 10 bolts and the ears for a 2 piece seal, a gen 6 has a 6 bolt cover and no ears for a 1piece seal, AND a gen 5 has 10 bolts and no ears for a 1 piece seal.
Rooster, Eddie Young uses the rollmaster 2095 with a stock gen 6 cover that they clearance the webs on the inside of the cover..... Post #16 https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...ose-cam-2.html Per Romacusa the CS2090 is the same as the CS2095 but it's not nitrited, I can't verify this though as there only one distributor. I also called Howard's and they only have a single roller .250 pin, which Eddie Young says the gears are good BUT the chain gets sticky (see above link). Plus according to Howard's there stuff is made by SA gear, so it's basically a SA gear set. Mike tach, also said that there are two different cam retainer plates. I think this is related to cam end play? https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...-nose-cam.html |
Howard's 94309 is the one eddie recommended to me last year. This was 1 year ago during my build. I had to trim the ridges inside cover and even he said sometimes you do sometimes you don't but it's easier to do it then have to pull off and check. |
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...SABEgL1P_D_BwE this was Eddies description to me I use a set that is marketed by Howards Cams and sold by Competition Products.It uses virtually the same billet gears as the Rollmaster but uses a Roll-on chain instead of an IWIS chain. And, its almost half the price. The Roll-on chain is every bit as good as the IWIS. Both are German made chains. The Rollmaster set can have some fitment issues with clearing the cam retainer plate. This set does not. The Gen VI is parts # 94309. |
Originally Posted by Crude Intentions
(Post 4634885)
gen 6 blocks but it's a 6 bolt cover. The ribs on the inside need to be ground flat |
Originally Posted by Baja Rooster
(Post 4635141)
My god this is too complicated for a damn chain, lol! |
Originally Posted by Baja Rooster
(Post 4635110)
So, in the opinion of the OSO brain trust, should I ditch this and go with something else? I really don’t want to yank this thing for such a relatively cheap part. |
Originally Posted by Baja Rooster
(Post 4635108)
No worries. I know that you’re well intended and always helpful. No line boring. I’d have to check the paperwork to see if he honed the caps. I wish I had the funds to buy a full set of heads from you and not worry about it. I saw a small scratch on the block from just degreeing the cam so I plan on hogging out at least an 1/8” of an inch. Prepping for surgery. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...f7404c8a7.jpeg |
Originally Posted by adk61
(Post 4635454)
I still stand by my original statement... Cloyes single roller
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I've done stuff like that myself...reluctantly...but turned out okay. Even with taping off areas, i have vacuum in my left hand and grinder in my right, Make sure to have them real close to each other The metal flies to the left for the most part. And the vac catches a lot of it.
I do the same when scraping gaskets on a motor. No grinder though. Hah. Work pretty slick. |
Anybody know how many inches deep the stock gen 6 timing cover is?
I've got a gen 5 cover I need to compare to a gen 6 and see if I can fit the rollmaster doubble roller CS2095 under . |
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...bc66b6b39.jpeg
Originally Posted by Mohavvalley
(Post 4636857)
Anybody know how many inches deep the stock gen 6 timing cover is?
I've got a gen 5 cover I need to compare to a gen 6 and see if I can fit the rollmaster doubble roller CS2095 under . |
Thanks Rooster, I'll check the gen 5 tomorrow.
How's the block clearancing going? |
It aint pretty but oughta do the trick. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...5d6715c5c.jpeg
Originally Posted by Mohavvalley
(Post 4636953)
Thanks Rooster, I'll check the gen 5 tomorrow.
How's the block clearancing going? |
Checked the gen 5 cover and it is .5" at the high points which are stamped inward so I don't think clearancing them is an option if it doesn't fit.
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I just used same roll masters on 2 gen 6 454s and a gen 6 502, sanded the ribs in timing covers, they rubbed slightly just turning them over by hand, sanded high spot on all the blocks w air sander too, no big deal other than you want to do it if possible before motors ckeaned snd assembled. All 3 of mine had .010 clearance between pins on chain and block before clearancing but if chain ever flopped at sll or w as lked around it would possibly rub, Smitty
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I also found when i tore the gen6 502 down it had the mentioned cloyes hd single roller and it had a ton of stretch after 60 hours retarding the cam, id avoid THAT chain!
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I had cloyes chains i installed in 2012. By 2016, around maybe 100 hours if that, and they were stretched out like a cheerleader on prom night. Replaced with rollmasters that come with the german made iwis chains. I think the howards ones crude intentions mentioned also come with the german made chain.
personally, i wont run a cast gear chain setup with anything over 400lbs of spring pressure. |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4637466)
I had cloyes chains i installed in 2012. By 2016, around maybe 100 hours if that, and they were stretched out like a cheerleader on prom night. Replaced with rollmasters that come with the german made iwis chains. I think the howards ones crude intentions mentioned also come with the german made chain.
personally, i wont run a cast gear chain setup with anything over 400lbs of spring pressure. |
What happens when you put a machinist straightedge across the cam and crank gear ?
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Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4637476)
What happens when you put a machinist straightedge across the cam and crank gear ?
Regarding the single roller chains. I've also see a few of the single rollers not only stretch but I've see a few of the single rollers actually broken off and in the oil pan. I use Rollmaster and clearance as necessary. |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4637466)
I had cloyes chains i installed in 2012. By 2016, around maybe 100 hours if that, and they were stretched out like a cheerleader on prom night. Replaced with rollmasters that come with the german made iwis chains. I think the howards ones crude intentions mentioned also come with the german made chain..
Just ordered the CS2095 ( gen 6) from Mart at engine pro, in MI .$107.43 + shipping 616-247-6572 Will see how much grinding I need to do or if it'll fit under a gen 5 cover? |
Some Funny Stuff in this post. So Baja Rooster, how did it turn out? I'm building a 548 and a Mag454 both with Roll Masters. It's a **** hair close to the block but like many just needed to be groomed. LOL. In the end i'm happier running double rollers as i'll be firing and listing the engines for sale. I did buy one of the deep timing chain covers for the double roller but really didn't need it. Still clears. Hope all is well and Happy New Year.
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Originally Posted by KRAUSMOTORSPORTS
(Post 4666308)
Some Funny Stuff in this post. So Baja Rooster, how did it turn out? I'm building a 548 and a Mag454 both with Roll Masters. It's a **** hair close to the block but like many just needed to be groomed. LOL. In the end i'm happier running double rollers as i'll be firing and listing the engines for sale. I did buy one of the deep timing chain covers for the double roller but really didn't need it. Still clears. Hope all is well and Happy New Year.
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Make sure you are not bind at the retainer, install the cam gear with plate and bolts and spin by hand, I found with my cam and rollmaster that the Torrington bearing was "crushed" and was binding when spun, do not do this with chain and use crank bolt to turn over.. I had dart blocks no clearance issues at the block, or even the cover, just the bearing, I later found out there are 2 different retainers, I am sure MT Joe will remember this.
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This is the video explaining to Mike T here and Joe. |
tim,in the video it looks like you installed the torrington bearing upside down,that will cause big problems.it does make a difference.
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Originally Posted by mike tkach
(Post 4666350)
tim,in the video it looks like you installed the torrington bearing upside down,that will cause big problems.it does make a difference.
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It was installed on the cam gear rite in the video. That plate had a ton of ware for sure.
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No, it was not, the plate in the video was example plate that was in old engines from cam touching. its been a few years but the bearing was already on the sprocket when I got it if I recall. The plates in the video were not ever used on the new engines, I had new ones. we used old ones to figure the issue out.
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Originally Posted by 14 apache
(Post 4666412)
It was installed on the cam gear rite in the video. That plate had a ton of ware for sure.
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After watching video again I see what you mean, but that center was an issue either way, I contacted a few builders who saw the same thing, I think it was MER Mark or Eddie young that said there are 2 different retainers.
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another guy same issue |
The bearing was already on my cam gear. There’s another thread here where the second retainer was mentioned and I asked about it for a part# with no response so I just machined the hole a little larger and all spun willie nillie after that. |
tim,on the rollmaster the black part of the torrington bearing faces away from the cam gear,i could not really tell how you had it in your video.also,like i told you during your builds,i have seen a few aftermarket retainer plates that needed a little clearancing.i have learned through the years not to assume any parts are machined correctly and everything needs to be checked.
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well here we go,i just got a rollmaster for a build i am doing,also got an order of new cam plates,guess what,without opening the hole in the retainer plate their will be contact with the bearing.these are gm retainer plates SSSOOOOO,anything can happen.
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Well, there you have it, lol. My retainer plate was the stock GM unit as well. It seems like they could at least mention their bearing doesn’t fit or resize the bearing. |
Originally Posted by mike tkach
(Post 4666512)
well here we go,i just got a rollmaster for a build i am doing,also got an order of new cam plates,guess what,without opening the hole in the retainer plate their will be contact with the bearing.these are gm retainer plates SSSOOOOO,anything can happen.
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Originally Posted by mike tkach
(Post 4666509)
tim,on the rollmaster the black part of the torrington bearing faces away from the cam gear,i could not really tell how you had it in your video.also,like i told you during your builds,i have seen a few aftermarket retainer plates that needed a little clearancing.i have learned through the years not to assume any parts are machined correctly and everything needs to be checked.
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