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Cam chain clearance to block
I just put on a Rollmaster CS2090 and it looks super close to the #1 side of the block. I saw a note in the box that some grinding may be needed so I guess this is what they were talking about? No marks or scraping sounds when turning over to degree the cam. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...ff23bc182.jpeg |
Can you push it towards the block and cause the chain to make contact at any point?
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Hard to tell. I’ll try to stick a feeler gauge behind it as I can’t tell if it’s hitting the block or sprocket. Is this a common issue? |
Is this a step nose cam with the retainer, cant recall from your other thread on which one to buy
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I can't answer that question but it definitely looks close.
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I was just about to say "maybe speedy will chime in here".
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Yep. Gen VI step nose with retainer. Chain set has the Torrington bearing. |
I guess if they send a note in the box their product has clearance issues in some cases. that really blow's who wants to grind on a new build
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A little annoyed about grinding on a fresh engine and will have to tape everything off like heart surgery. I guess the trade off is that it *may* fit under the factory cover (it’s a lot easier to grind/replace the cover though). Otherwise it’s a really nice set for the money. Installed the cam straight up and was within a half degree of spec. |
Did you price Cloyes, just curios how they priced out............never used roll master
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Originally Posted by Baja Rooster
(Post 4634724)
I just put on a Rollmaster CS2090 and it looks super close to the #1 side of the block. I saw a note in the box that some grinding may be needed so I guess this is what they were talking about? No marks or scraping sounds when turning over to degree the cam. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...ff23bc182.jpeg |
Doesn't the cam naturally walk forward towards the retainer and away from the block when running? I know when I went to a roller cam and a cam button it wanted to push my timing cover off the block. I have to put a 1/4" plate between my timing cover and crossover to stabilize it. And the button wore pretty good.
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You could have ground it and been done already :D i would grind it, and never worry about it again. |
Originally Posted by F-2 Speedy
(Post 4634741)
I guess if they send a note in the box their product has clearance issues in some cases. that really blow's who wants to grind on a new build
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Originally Posted by Baja Rooster
(Post 4634740)
Yep. Gen VI step nose with retainer. Chain set has the Torrington bearing. |
Originally Posted by F-2 Speedy
(Post 4634748)
Did you price Cloyes, just curios how they priced out............never used roll master
Originally Posted by Ryan00TJ
(Post 4634757)
From the pic it looks awful close. While it misses now, what about at operating temp? Feelers gauge to check for exact numbers.
Originally Posted by sailtexas186548
(Post 4634768)
You could have ground it and been done already :D i would grind it, and never worry about it again.
Originally Posted by adk61
(Post 4634770)
why not use the right chain in the first place... the Gen 6 with step nose cam/retainer system is great!!! wish all BBC were this way, to run a dbl row chain you need to clearance the block... the single severe duty chain system by Cloyes (9-3649x3) made for the Gen 6 is a brute single row true roller, multiple keyway for variety of timing positions. Just my $.002
https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...favorites.html
Originally Posted by Gimme Fuel
(Post 4634777)
I had same set with my GMPP Gen VI block. Had to grind quite a bit. Didn't rub during assembly/mock up, but certainly did when ran!
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Originally Posted by Baja Rooster
(Post 4634780)
Because not all of us do this for a living to know and the Rollmaster was highly recommended in the OSO threads that I read. I don’t see your recommendation in my thread asking this exact question. https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...favorites.html I've asked the same question in 2 different threads and got nothing but crickets for almost 2 weeks https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...-nose-cam.html https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...iming-set.html I looked up your part number on roll masters product list and a CS2090 does not even come up |
I have a double roller recommended by Eddie young. Had to clearance the factory timing cover but that took minutes and nowhere near the engines. Howard's 94309. |
Originally Posted by Crude Intentions
(Post 4634814)
I have a double roller recommended by Eddie young. Had to clearance the factory timing cover but that took minutes and nowhere near the engines. Howard's 94309. |
this why many dont run double roller setup...not needed for the most part in my opinion
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Originally Posted by ezstriper
(Post 4634871)
this why many dont run double roller setup...not needed for the most part in my opinion
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Originally Posted by Mohavvalley
(Post 4634851)
Gen 6 -10 bolt stamped cover or Gen 5 cover -6-bolt stamped cover?
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and its cast aluminum not stamped............:D
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Originally Posted by Crude Intentions
(Post 4634885)
gen 6 blocks but it's a 6 bolt cover. The ribs on the inside need to be ground flat Do you have a link to it? Thanks |
Originally Posted by Mohavvalley
(Post 4634799)
I feel ya Rooster!
I've asked the same question in 2 different threads and got nothing but crickets for almost 2 weeks https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...-nose-cam.html https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...iming-set.html I looked up your part number on roll masters product list and a CS2090 does not even come up I was looking at single rollers but the adjustable units that I found were much more expensive than the double rollers. I was actually going to run the stock GM unit but it already had a half an inch of slack and read that a some oem units are set with 10* retard. I didn’t bother to verify that though since it was already junk. It’s amazing how difficult it can be to sort out these little details for the weekend warriors. I’m actually really happy with the set. A little grinding is no big deal. |
Originally Posted by Mohavvalley
(Post 4634940)
Is it a gen 4 or gen 5?
Do you have a link to it? Thanks |
Roster, did you use the CS2095?
I don't see a CS2090 in the romac catalog. I did find this though on the CS2095, check out Chris Straubs post #17, it says about 20% of the CS2095 need to have the block clearanced, and he sells rollmaster. Timing chain for a gen 6 - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech I'm still figuring mine out, so there is no definite answer but I'm leaning toward the rollmaster CS2095 with a cast aluminum gen 4 cover clearanced. |
I got mine off of Amazon and looks to be the last one. eBay has plenty of them though. |
Originally Posted by Mohavvalley
(Post 4634940)
Is it a gen 4 or gen 5?
Do you have a link to it? Thanks |
Originally Posted by Baja Rooster
(Post 4634780)
I looked at Cloyes and looks like a fine set and cheaper too. This was about $125 with more adjustability, which I didn’t need. Exactly. I don’t want a problem later. Totes. Because not all of us do this for a living to know and the Rollmaster was highly recommended in the OSO threads that I read. Comp Cams has a tough single roller for near $250. I don’t see your recommendation in my thread asking this exact question. https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...favorites.html Thanks. Grinding will be done! No big deal. |
Originally Posted by Crude Intentions
(Post 4634963)
like the post says. They are gen 6 motors. I'm asking because a gen 4 won't seal a one piece rms like on the gen 5/6 so if the cover you used was for a 1 piece RMS and only had 6 bolt holes it must have been a gen 5 cover (because gen 6 has 10 bolt holes like I mentioned earlier) from what I've found, gen 5 covers are hard to find especially one that is cheap and requires just a little clearance work, that's what I'm asking where you got it and which one it was. All the "gen 5" covers I've found are $175+. Rooster I found out the rollmaster CS2090 is the NON nitrited version of the timing set and http://www.romacusa.com/index.html is only a single US distributor not the main US distributor so it may be found some where else for cheaper BUT they did quote me $110 for the CS2095 which is cheaper than anyone else I've found so far. |
Well someone should tell summit they are wrong. For the record mine are gen 6 with these exact covers. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-10230954 |
cs2090 or 2095? i got the 2095 and im hoping i dont have this issue as well. how much did you have to grind
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Originally Posted by adk61
(Post 4634770)
why not use the right chain in the first place... the Gen 6 with step nose cam/retainer system is great!!! wish all BBC were this way, to run a dbl row chain you need to clearance the block... the single severe duty chain system by Cloyes (9-3649x3) made for the Gen 6 is a brute single row true roller, multiple keyway for variety of timing positions. Just my $.002
Not pushing the timing set per say but click to read the comments since it comes with the retainer plate: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/n...1053/overview/ and: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/18-e...iming-set.html When installed in a Gen VI block, excess forward travel on a Gen VI hydraulic roller cam is limited by a factory thrust plate. The reduced-diameter Gen VI cam nose indexes into the thrust plate’s center hole, and the plate in turn bolts to the block’s front cam boss. Although endplay still should be checked and verified (particularly when using thicker-than-stock aftermarket timing sets), it’s not affected by different front gaskets. It turns out that many old Mark IV blocks also have thrust-plate provisions. Back in the day, the plate was used on rare factory reverse-rotation, geardrive, flat-tappet cam applications. Westech Performance checked out an original factory high-performance block, and it turns out the thrust plate’s bolt spacing (even though it performed a different function) is the same as on the late models. So assuming your Mark IV block is drilled with these two extra holes (as shown in the photos, approximately 2.394 inches on-center spacing), you can install a Gen VI cam and timing set in the Mark IV block using the late-GM Gen VI cam retainer. Sand the thrust-plate as needed to achieve the needed endplay (about 0.002 to 0.007 inch). The one remaining drawback to this retrofit was the lack of a double-roller Gen VI timing chain. There was insufficient clearance underneath the factory eight-bolt Gen VI timing cover to clear the thicker double-roller chain, so until recently only single-roller Gen VI chains were available. But now Comp Cams sells a new Gen VI eight-bolt cover (PN 217) that clears its trick multikeyway billet Gen VI-style double-roller timing set (PN 7101). On the Mark IV block with a Gen VI-style cam, you would use the original 10-bolt Mark IV-style front cover with the now-available Gen VI double-roller chain. Because the thrust-plate cam retention solution is a set-it-once-and-forget-it solution, with a Gen VI double-roller chain now available, anyone ordering a custom roller cam for an early Mark IV block with the two extra holes in the front cam journal boss might well consider ordering the custom cam machined with the late-style nose. |
Originally Posted by adk61
(Post 4635000)
Hey Baja.. I wasn't trying to offend you, and if I did, my apologies... I use the Cloyes in my Gen 6 builds and have never had an issue ... that being said if you do use your dbl row, I'd say make sure you have sufficient clearance for potential unknowns, chain whip, stretch etc etc... and also if your block has been align bored/honed will be helpful to know how much (even new blocks need some love sometimes) they make chain kits for .002" to .010" .... happy boating!!!
Originally Posted by LTZCrew
(Post 4635031)
cs2090 or 2095? i got the 2095 and im hoping i dont have this issue as well. how much did you have to grind
Prepping for surgery. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...f7404c8a7.jpeg |
So, in the opinion of the OSO brain trust, should I ditch this and go with something else? I really don’t want to yank this thing for such a relatively cheap part. |
Originally Posted by Baja Rooster
(Post 4635110)
So, in the opinion of the OSO brain trust, should I ditch this and go with something else? I really don’t want to yank this thing for such a relatively cheap part. |
Thanks. I don’t mind grinding but I’m wondering if the Rollmaster unit is suspect. I’m curious of the longevity of the Torrington bearing. Perhaps it’s handy for drag cars for ten seconds at a time but I want to keep this engine until it melts from old age. |
That was my plan. Make it as reliable as I can. I figure if Eddie uses this Howard's set on 1000+hp builds it'll be fine for me. It's only like $125 also. |
First off I owe crude intentions an apology, I was wrong, I had my numbers reversed. Mark 4 covers have 10 bolts and the ears for a 2 piece seal, a gen 6 has a 6 bolt cover and no ears for a 1piece seal, AND a gen 5 has 10 bolts and no ears for a 1 piece seal.
Rooster, Eddie Young uses the rollmaster 2095 with a stock gen 6 cover that they clearance the webs on the inside of the cover..... Post #16 https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...ose-cam-2.html Per Romacusa the CS2090 is the same as the CS2095 but it's not nitrited, I can't verify this though as there only one distributor. I called Cloyes and they only have a single roller .250 pin. I also called Howard's and their sets are made by SA gear so it's basicallyba SA gear set and Eddie Young says the gears are good BUT the chain gets sticky (see above link). Mike tach, also said that there are two different cam retainer plates. I think this is related to cam end play? https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...-nose-cam.html |
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