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Compare these heads please
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-61555 edelbrock rpm performer marine aluminum http://dartheads.com/dart-product/iron-eagle-24-308-345cc/ dart heads iron they have 345 cast into them so I’m assuming they are the 345 version Engine is a 460 cu Je blower pistons eagle rods stock crank 8-71 at 5 psi boost long story short I bought the dart heads used and after a lot of pain through the machine shop and sticking an exhaust valve they are now telling me the guides need to be honed and I need all new valves....have a buddy that has the edelbrock heads that he will sell me for 1000 bucks...which is the better way to go?? New valves for the dart heads or buy the Edelbrocks?? Basically at this point it’s obvious they did not do a lot of the work on the heads that I paid them to do initially and are now telling me I need all new valves... so in on the long run on this engine which head will be better?? All cost factors aside also they did put all new springs locks and retainers on the dart heads...will all of that stuff transfer to the edelbrocks if I go that route?? The edelbrocks are assembled but would like to use the new stuff I already bought that matches my cam |
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-61459 correction...these are the edelbrock heads |
Guessing the Edelbrock with smaller runners and aluminum would be better with the 460 blower motor, but what does the 110 cc combustion chamber do to your compression ratio. It would be roughly 1 point higher than the Dart with 119 cc.
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buy the new valves and keep the dart heads, and take this stuff to a competent machine shop that will stand behind the work, Im sure the dart heads will out flow the other ones, and before you leave the old shop kick one of them in the privates........:lolhit:
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The Edelbrock heads are nice for a budget minded Friday night street rod. I’ve made a pair work on my engine but they’re very limited. |
Whose you head guy? You're not to far from GR, give JimV a call and go over it with him.
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I don’t want to throw out the name of the place just yet...I did a lot of research on them prior to going there and they are a very reputable race engine builder so they might pay for everything and make it right so I don’t feel comfortable calling them out just yet....thanks for all the opinions on the heads!! Im located in southwest Michigan about an hour from GR so if they do try to bone me on this I will def be going somewhere else instead of dumping more money to them...possibly try for a refund of money from them and put it towards a set of AFR’s from AK which would be better in the long run anyway just wasn’t in the initial build budget |
I would be reluctant to have the initial shop you purchased the darts from to even perform the work unless you purchased off the shelf used heads as is. They should have .0018-.0020 clearance for sc marine application. There's a lot of good head guys in the area however Valako in Grand Rapids area is the only guy I use as many others. Very honest and you don't have to worry about anything other than torquing them down. Jims been doing my performance heads for over 30 years. Never once an issue what so ever. Good luck though either way. |
I bought the darts used on here actually...knowing they had a sticky guide which was told to the shop that did the work....I got the heads back yesterday with all new ferrea valves and new head gaskets free of charge...when I asked what happened they told me that the "head guy" that did mine the first time has been let go because of what happened and they couldn't apologize enough...not ideal but they did stand behind their work and fix the issue so we'll see how it goes this time around
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Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4646648)
I bought the darts used on here actually...knowing they had a sticky guide which was told to the shop that did the work....I got the heads back yesterday with all new ferrea valves and new head gaskets free of charge...when I asked what happened they told me that the "head guy" that did mine the first time has been let go because of what happened and they couldn't apologize enough...not ideal but they did stand behind their work and fix the issue so we'll see how it goes this time around
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I sure hope so...my only concern with them is that if they are the 345's(which is cast into the top of them so I assume they are) I'm concerned I'm a little shy on cubes and too low of RPM's to really use them to their potential...but time will tell!! Hopefully have her back on the water early next week!! :boat:
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You have an 8-71, you'll be fine.
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lol fair enough...once I get this thing sorted out and running again I may look into upping the boost a little....I think I'm on the way conservative side at 5 lbs of boost....although conservative may be fine for awhile while I'm babying this bravo lol
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Glad to hear you were able to resolve the head issue... Good luck with the build, and feel free to touch base should you need any help, advice. etc etc...
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Thanks man!! Hopefully the heads are right this time....at this point I should have just saved some more money and bought a set of AFR's from you lol...oh well live and learn I guess
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It's all good bud, you did what you had to do, remember, hindsight is 20/20
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Yup and upon further inspection yesterday while I was installing rockers and setting the lash...I found that the pushrods are so short the rockers are binding upon full valve closer so bad that the rocker was contacting the nut/stud to the point it was either loosening the nut or bending the stud out of the way....all of my intake rockers are gouged on the outer edge from the nut contacting them so I know its been that way from the beginning....somewhat of an easy fix but I believe this could have contributed to the bent intake valves and poor running from the get go...I am beyond pissed about all this and it is really turning me off about this whole project...I know stuff happens with performance motors but from the get go I feel like I got screwed and now have to re buy parts that are trashed because of them...makes me sick to my stomach to even think about it and at this point I'm thinking just call it a loss and buy the proper parts and put it back together and leave them out of the situation from here on out
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Valvetrain
Dude... whoever built these should have checked the valvetrain for correct geometry from the start... dart, afr, edlebrock, doesn't matter who's head.. they all take longer rods ... then you also need to take into consideration the valve length as well and correct said geometry accordingly...
this is a learning experience for you don't be looking at it from desparaged prospective... fix it make it right and move on... feel free to call me if you want some help figuring it out |
I appreciate it man....they did supposedly measure and buy the "correct" push rods for my setup...not sure if it changed from the new valves they put in however the damage to the rockers shows that they were hitting prior to the valve issue...I did the sharpie on top of the valve set it roll it over and check procedure and the roller tip is literally within 1/16" or less from falling off of the inside of the valve stem....clearly they are not right..I have no problem setting it up and I'm confident I can do it as I am a mechanic however my beef is that I paid them to do this already and paid for pushrods already that are clearly wrong...just getting discouraged as it has taken my whole summer away from me due to issues on their end...oh well is what it is...fix it and move on
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What rods do you need? I just pulled these out with about 20hours on them. https://www.jegs.com/i/Comp-Cams/249...BoCX3MQAvD_BwE I hear the frustration about local vendors. That’s how so many members here end up with a machine shop in their garage, lol. |
I need to measure today what size I need but off hand I would guess around 8" on the intake and 8.75 on the exhaust....for reference the intakes are 7.7 now and exhaust is 8.650....exhaust is close but the intakes are way short
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I have a pile of various length push rods. post up what length you need and I might have a set
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My rods ended up being 1/4” too long. If they were too short I’d look for lifters close to the height I needed. I know that’s rather redneck but two birds one stone and all that jazz. |
How did they measure? did they have your shortblock there?
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Yes they assembled the entire engine besides intake and accessories
Thanks snap if it ends up coming to that I will def let you know....at this point I'm pushing for them to take the whole engine back and go through it....I'm concerned where the aluminum ended up that was ground off of the rockers...the way my luck is its stuck in a bearing somewhere waiting to catastrophically fail...I know they screwed it up once already but I'm not losing faith just yet...I talked to them yesterday and I'm thinking the owner of the business wasn't aware of the issues and now is so I'm pretty sure he is gonna want the engine back to rebuild it |
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