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Prestigeworldwideee 02-16-2019 11:08 PM

Where’s my speed at?
 
I’ve got a 25’ 2’ 1990 Larson Senza Spectre with the 454 mag, bravo 1 with a 23pitch prop (365hp and 350hp at crankshaft). With 3 people (about 550lbs) and 3/4 tank (80 gallon tank) I run at 53mph (on GPS) @5500RPM... the RPMs seem a little high and speed seems low (even for an older boat). The 300hp test boat ran at 58mph on radar and the 230hp test boat ran at 41mph. This step hull runs 10mph faster than conventional hulls. Haven’t had a ton of time to mess with the boat and really play around so this is pretty much all of the info I have. What can I do to regain some speed?

RBeyer 02-16-2019 11:30 PM


Originally Posted by Prestigeworldwideee (Post 4673063)
I’ve got a 25’ 2’ 1990 Larson Senza Spectre with the 454 mag, bravo 1 with a 23pitch prop (365hp and 350hp at crankshaft). With 3 people (about 550lbs) and 3/4 tank (80 gallon tank) I run at 53mph (on GPS) @5500RPM... the RPMs seem a little high and speed seems low (even for an older boat). The 300hp test boat ran at 58mph on radar and the 230hp test boat ran at 41mph. This step hull runs 10mph faster than conventional hulls. Haven’t had a ton of time to mess with the boat and really play around so this is pretty much all of the info I have. What can I do to regain some speed?

This is my favorite calculator, plug in your numbers.

Propeller Calculator / Prop Calculator

RBeyer 02-16-2019 11:33 PM

Have you checked gear ratio? It may be a 1.65

liberator221 02-17-2019 06:51 AM

53 at 5500rpm sounds like a ton of slip if you have a 1.5 ratio drive.....something doesn’t add up.
I dont think the ECM will allow a 454mag to turn that fast unless it’s been reprogramed. Tach off?

liberator221 02-17-2019 06:53 AM

Scratch that last statement, just realized you have a carbed engine.

BUP 02-17-2019 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by liberator221 (Post 4673080)
Scratch that last statement, just realized you have a carbed engine.

YEP 1990 stock OEM was all carb engines. And T Bolt 4 ignition so no rev limiter for any those. CARB engines T bolt 5 ignition did have a rev limiter and were 100 rpm over max WOT from the OEM.

BUP 02-17-2019 11:23 AM

compression test ?

condition of the props - any redone - Some prop shops do chitty repairs inreturn cost lower performance running condition. My area that is the norm - repaired props junk work

Timing and advance ?

Full Ignition tune up needed --- possible ?

check tach rpms to compare how accurate they are. The tach possible set on the WRONG pole setting would be a good guess here. Or inaccurate

Bottom of the hull spotless clean and do you have a painted bottom ? or a repair bottom. Check for hooks in the bottom of the hull.

IMPORTANT -- holding extra weight ? water logged ? or bringing water into the boat - ? Rotted wood ?

Is your Larson the one with the single Step hull bottom ( DDC) that Harry Schoell designed ?? If I recall correctly that hull bottom for Larson was in 1992 or 93 or 94 ? Forgot when that happened

Crude Intentions 02-17-2019 12:20 PM

Assuming your numbers are correct and it’s a 1.5 drive that’s a crazy high slip. I’d want to borrow a box stock prop and go from there.

Prestigeworldwideee 02-17-2019 02:05 PM

I haven’t checked my gear ratio, I assume it’s 1.5 and it’s one step. The prop is the original 3-blade stainless steel quicksilver prop which seems to be flawless. I think everything is original on this boat, if it’s the 1.5 gear ratio, that’s means I’m getting like a 33% slip. I don’t know if the RPMs are right but that’s what I’m seeing. I can’t do anything right now as it’s winter here.

Crude Intentions 02-17-2019 02:22 PM

Get a good timing light with a tach and you can check the accuracy when you get better weather. I would still try a box stock prop. Easiest thing to do. To see if the numbers change. The prop may look fine to your eyes but people knock and ding them a lot and get them repaired. Very easy to ruin a prop. Next I would go to a waterlogged type situation.

RBeyer 02-17-2019 02:24 PM


Originally Posted by Prestigeworldwideee (Post 4673145)
I haven’t checked my gear ratio, I assume it’s 1.5 and it’s one step. The prop is the original 3-blade stainless steel quicksilver prop which seems to be flawless. I think everything is original on this boat, if it’s the 1.5 gear ratio, that’s means I’m getting like a 33% slip. I don’t know if the RPMs are right but that’s what I’m seeing. I can’t do anything right now as it’s winter here.

I have not seen many 1.65 drives out there but they do exist. My guess is either the prop is bad or the tach is inaccurate!

RBeyer 02-17-2019 02:24 PM


Originally Posted by Prestigeworldwideee (Post 4673145)
I haven’t checked my gear ratio, I assume it’s 1.5 and it’s one step. The prop is the original 3-blade stainless steel quicksilver prop which seems to be flawless. I think everything is original on this boat, if it’s the 1.5 gear ratio, that’s means I’m getting like a 33% slip. I don’t know if the RPMs are right but that’s what I’m seeing. I can’t do anything right now as it’s winter here.

Try a Bravo 4 Blade 24 and see what you get.

madbouyz 02-17-2019 03:31 PM

First off , I'm a little skeptical that the step on your hull adds +10mph over a straight V of the same size , weight and power .
Secondly , maybe someone can clarify , but I thought that all OBs and stern drives have been prop shaft HP rated since sometime in the 1980s .
IMO 53 MPH out of a single 350hp engine in a boat of that configuration doesn't sound too far off normal . Maybe even more so if the bottom is painted .
As has already been mentioned , I'd first confirm that your tach is calibrated correctly .

Prestigeworldwideee 02-17-2019 05:30 PM

I never noticed any vibration or anything like that from the prop. It’s not waterlogged or anything like that either. The hull does add 10mph over conventional, it’s fairly light for its size at 4,000lbs dry weight, while my dad’s 1994 225CCR weighs 3,900lbs (350 mag, alpha 1 and stainless steel prop) and tops out at 47mph. I’ll test the tach firstly in the summer since I live in Ny. I’ll look into different props as well. I found an old listing for my boat, the guy stated that it did 66mph top speed back in 2011 and I’m fairly certain that nothing was changed since then. I’ll have to check the gear ratio to make sure it’s 1.5, my guess is that’s what it is. This boat has all the extras besides captains choice exhaust, just has thru-hull. Just based on what other owners stated and the test boats, this should be running much faster. I also remembered that at slow no wake speeds, I get a lot of wandering, maybe a 4 blade would help this as well?

ar300johnson 02-17-2019 07:41 PM

Sounds like a prop or a tach problem. 350 hp and a boat with fuel and passengers added to a dry weight of 4000 lbs would likely run in the mid 50’s. With a good bottom and lots of prop testing, you might break into the low 60’s. Good luck with your boat.

Mr Maine 02-18-2019 08:11 PM

5500 is over turning a 454 mag. I think the recomended range is 4600 to 5000 but they are done on the dyno at 4800. So your over turning it 600 rpm.

Baja Rooster 02-18-2019 08:59 PM

My drive was labeled 1.50 but when I pulled it off someone had changed the gears and scribed 1.65 on it. A lot of fountains came with 1.65 drives that may have found its way to your boat.

Prestigeworldwideee 02-19-2019 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by Baja Rooster (Post 4673347)
My drive was labeled 1.50 but when I pulled it off someone had changed the gears and scribed 1.65 on it. A lot of fountains came with 1.65 drives that may have found its way to your boat.

The boat doesn’t seem to have had that much use out of it, I would be very surprised to hear that it wasn’t all original. It’s a bit in accessible at the moment so checking the gear ratio will have to wait, checking the tachometer will have to wait till the summer and any other diagnostics as well. I’ve seen the same setup as I have in another spectre and it ran like 68 MPH on GPS. I’ll be back here when I figure out the gear ratio.

BUP 02-19-2019 11:24 PM

I doubt the tach is correct -- pole setting off on the back of the tach.

can a stock carb 454 mag even get up to 5500 / 5600 without floating the valves ?

If I recall a 1990 454 mag carb is 330 hp I would have to look that up. A 23 correct pitch prop is not going to spin that engine up to 5500 rpms.

BUP 02-19-2019 11:27 PM

Post the engine serial number of the engine and the outdrive serial number that will tell what OEM stock was and year of the engine

BUP 02-20-2019 02:52 PM

1989 Mercruiser came out with the 365 hp 454 carb and it was rated at the crank 365 hp. 1990 year was at the crank measured hp

1991 was the year they -- Mercruiser posted propshaft hp.

1.50 was the listed gear ratio for the bravo in 1990 and in 89 and 91 for the 454 / combo. I do not recall a 1.65 during THOSE YEARS. But of course later on more ratios where intro. .

RBeyer 02-20-2019 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by BUP (Post 4673589)
1989 Mercruiser came out with the 365 hp 454 carb and it was rated at the crank 365 hp. 1990 year was at the crank measured hp

1991 was the year they -- Mercruiser posted propshaft hp.

1.50 was the listed gear ratio for the bravo in 1990 and in 89 and 91 for the 454 / combo. I do not recall a 1.65 during THOSE YEARS. But of course later on more ratios where intro. .

The RPM sounds high like a Tach think that speed of 53 to 58 sounds about right spinning a 23 and 1.50 in the low 5000"s

MR.HAPPY 02-22-2019 03:17 PM

I owned the same boat-engine combo in a 92 model bought new & it ran 68 on the dream meter...
I think it ran 5200 Rs
Don't ever think we checked it with GPS...
Fun Boat!

veloc410 02-22-2019 03:53 PM

I had an 89 251 liberator stroked Ford 501, 1.410 ratio king cobra. 23 pitch, 5000rpm 60mph. 5000 lbs, slow hull. Drove the nose down.

Prestigeworldwideee 05-28-2019 06:05 PM


Originally Posted by MR.HAPPY (Post 4673882)
I owned the same boat-engine combo in a 92 model bought new & it ran 68 on the dream meter...
I think it ran 5200 Rs
Don't ever think we checked it with GPS...
Fun Boat!

yeah, my speedometer actually matches up to my GPS speed but I’ll stick to GPS so I know it’s right. So I changed the spark plugs out which I don’t think has EVER been done before.... so bad, so old. Got some new ones in, changed out the impeller and the water pump housing ended up cracking on me. So, won’t be able to test it out till possibly this weekend when I get the new housing. With the way the sparks look, I should be considerably faster with better acceleration. I’ll probably will replace the wires and cap as well... wires look like it wouldn’t hurt to change out.

SB 05-28-2019 06:20 PM

If they are Mercruiser/Quicksilver wires, the last two #'s in the part # printed on each wire is the year they where made. 3 boats the other year had OE wires from the 80's lol. so yeh, never replaced. Amazing.

Baja Rooster 05-28-2019 06:24 PM

If the easy things such as plugs have been overlooked it would be a good guess the carbs have been untouched as well. A proper tune up oughta make that feel like an entirely new boat.

Prestigeworldwideee 05-29-2019 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by Baja Rooster (Post 4688806)
If the easy things such as plugs have been overlooked it would be a good guess the carbs have been untouched as well. A proper tune up oughta make that feel like an entirely new boat.

very good point, I’ll have to take a look at the carbs as well. The spark plug wires are Mercruiser suppression... can’t remember the part number.

Prestigeworldwideee 06-08-2019 07:48 PM

Top end check in: ran the boat with the new spark plugs and saw a 7.4% increase in top speed! This boat just hasn’t been maintained the way it was suppose to be. The spark plug wires are original and made back in 1989! Gonna put new spark plug wires and a new distributor cap on. Top end speed aside, I’m sure this could use one for the sake of good maintenance. Ran 52.8mph last year and 56.7mph today and I might be able to even get a little more out of it since I don’t think the trim was fully down. I didn’t know at the time but I had bumped the power wire on the outdrive and it stopped working. I doubt I’ll be hitting 68mph but I might be able to hit low 60’s with the trim all the way down and new wires and a new cap.

phragle 06-08-2019 08:00 PM

Uhmmm you want to trim up...

Trimming up brings the drive up and the bow up.

In rougher water you trim down to get the bow to cut and keep the boat in the water...

Crude Intentions 06-09-2019 01:26 AM

Trim down to get on plane the. Start trimming up. At least neutral with the hull bottom. Then go to positive trim for speed increase. Now I’m really confused on how plugs made the boat faster. We’re the RPMs the same? Plugs/tuneup usually come into play when the boat isn’t running right. Speed is a simple product of RPM, drive ratio, pitch, and slip. So if you had the same rpm and all else being equal something seems very odd.

Prestigeworldwideee 06-09-2019 12:13 PM


Originally Posted by Crude Intentions (Post 4690913)
Trim down to get on plane the. Start trimming up. At least neutral with the hull bottom. Then go to positive trim for speed increase. Now I’m really confused on how plugs made the boat faster. We’re the RPMs the same? Plugs/tuneup usually come into play when the boat isn’t running right. Speed is a simple product of RPM, drive ratio, pitch, and slip. So if you had the same rpm and all else being equal something seems very odd.

Step hulls don’t work like that with trimming. Plugs can get you better acceleration, fuel economy and speed. I had a similar problem with a jet ski I use to own and the spark plugs made a massive difference. Didn’t pay attention to RPM but I could also feel the difference in speed.

Crude Intentions 06-09-2019 10:28 PM

I have a stepped hull and they do work like that. Lol. But good luck.

SB 06-09-2019 10:36 PM

My wife tells me to trim down to make the boat faster too. :)

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...c14b84611b.jpg

StewLow 06-10-2019 08:26 PM

Have yet to see a boat that goes faster the more the bow is buried. And I have a straight bottom and a step.

Prestigeworldwideee 08-08-2019 06:32 PM

I really haven’t had much time to mess with the boat but hopefully tomorrow I’m gonna mark the prop and check to see if I get any spinning. Switching the battery to the starboard side as well for listing to port issue. I’ll mess with the trim more but it seems pointless like it doesn’t effect the boat at all.

Prestigeworldwideee 08-11-2019 11:21 PM


Originally Posted by StewLow (Post 4691214)
Have yet to see a boat that goes faster the more the bow is buried. And I have a straight bottom and a step.

Well I got about 59mph at 4500RPM today on slightly choppy waters, 1/2 a tank and a total of 4 people onboard. Gained about 5mph trimming up a little bit, it’s a bit weird trimming this boat because you can’t feel when you hit the sweet spot on the trim. Just watched the speed when I was trimming and it didn’t take much trimming.

14 apache 08-12-2019 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by Prestigeworldwideee (Post 4701607)


Well I got about 59mph at 4500RPM today on slightly choppy waters, 1/2 a tank and a total of 4 people onboard. Gained about 5mph trimming up a little bit, it’s a bit weird trimming this boat because you can’t feel when you hit the sweet spot on the trim. Just watched the speed when I was trimming and it didn’t take much trimming.

what propeller you running now?

Prestigeworldwideee 02-24-2020 08:08 PM


Originally Posted by 14 apache (Post 4701732)

what propeller you running now?

Same setup, I’m just getting more use to the way it drives and rides. I think I can get close if not top speed which they advertise in the brochure because I don’t think it was used that much, it’s all basically original... besides the spark plugs I changed out.


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