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-   -   Bbc 509 procharger D1? (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/369898-bbc-509-procharger-d1.html)

JaniH 01-03-2021 04:21 AM

Bbc 509 procharger D1?
 
Bbc 509cid, 9.6 static comp. 050" 230/236, 0.650"/620" Lift, 112lsa roller cam. Iron heads. How much boost I could use? Procharger D1. I was thinking 4psi max, that should make Well over 600hp from 500hp NA base engine.

sutphen 30 01-03-2021 08:38 AM

6-7psi and I'd watch the timing and knock sensors.best would be to get it on a dyno and watch the egt's to,then sneak up on the timing.you may be surprised what 1-2° can net you.

JaniH 01-03-2021 10:02 AM


Originally Posted by sutphen 30 (Post 4771395)
6-7psi and I'd watch the timing and knock sensors.best would be to get it on a dyno and watch the egt's to,then sneak up on the timing.you may be surprised what 1-2° can net you.

Sounds too good to be True. Ring end gaps and piston to wall clearances are allready In specs for boost. Only concern is ferrea 5000 series valves, maybe fine for mild boost with good tune @ dyno. 7psi would put over 700hp.

sutphen 30 01-03-2021 10:18 AM

yeah,I'd want inconel exhaust valves for sure.

GPM 01-03-2021 11:14 AM

That doesn't sound like a good cam for a steel head Procharged motor to me, but that's just my opinion. Are you running an intercooler ?

JaniH 01-03-2021 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by GPM (Post 4771414)
That doesn't sound like a good cam for a steel head Procharged motor to me, but that's just my opinion. Are you running an intercooler ?

My combo is not build for boost, just curious could I add some boost for it. Camshaft is custom grind for NA combo. I still could retard the cam few degrees, but dont know if I want to do that. I have stock bravo drive so I am bushing it even wit out boost. My friend offered good deal of procharger d1. I was thinking something like 4psi without cooler. Intake valve closing point is 63deg atdc, wich makes 7.7 dynamic compression without boost. I was surprised that it is possible to run the procharger In my combo.

mcollinstn 01-03-2021 02:21 PM

Closed chamber or open chamber head?
Squish clearance?
Intake lobe centerline on cam installation??

JaniH 01-03-2021 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by mcollinstn (Post 4771443)
Closed chamber or open chamber head?
Squish clearance?
Intake lobe centerline on cam installation??

Open chamber, ICL 106, ECL 118. Squish 0.034"-0.037", depending a cylinder.

GPM 01-03-2021 03:06 PM

Maybe add an intercooler for safety, are you planning to run a thermostat in the engine ?

JaniH 01-03-2021 03:20 PM


Originally Posted by GPM (Post 4771452)
Maybe add an intercooler for safety, are you planning to run a thermostat in the engine ?

Closed cooling with thermotat, at first going to dyno the engine as NA and brake it In.

mcollinstn 01-03-2021 04:54 PM

4 psi should be plenty safe, even with mid-octane levels. At 4psi, your valves are fine too.
keep total timing under 35.
You are borderline on requiring an intercooler.
If you do choose to add a decent cooler, you can probably increase boost to 6 ish.
Your tight squish is really helpful.

Retarding the cam will bleed a little combustion pressure at lower rpm, but will increase pressure above 4,500 rpm (and your Procharger makes more boost with rom so be careful).

Are you EFI or carb?
Detonation is sometimes hard to detect with boost - knock sensors and EGTs help, but familiarity reading plugs (for detonation, mixture, and proper hear range) is especially useful.

JaniH 01-04-2021 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by mcollinstn (Post 4771466)
4 psi should be plenty safe, even with mid-octane levels. At 4psi, your valves are fine too.
keep total timing under 35.
You are borderline on requiring an intercooler.
If you do choose to add a decent cooler, you can probably increase boost to 6 ish.
Your tight squish is really helpful.

Retarding the cam will bleed a little combustion pressure at lower rpm, but will increase pressure above 4,500 rpm (and your Procharger makes more boost with rom so be careful).

Are you EFI or carb?
Detonation is sometimes hard to detect with boost - knock sensors and EGTs help, but familiarity reading plugs (for detonation, mixture, and proper hear range) is especially useful.

Carb or holley sniper style efi.

JaniH 01-04-2021 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by mcollinstn (Post 4771466)
4 psi should be plenty safe, even with mid-octane levels. At 4psi, your valves are fine too.
keep total timing under 35.
You are borderline on requiring an intercooler.
If you do choose to add a decent cooler, you can probably increase boost to 6 ish.
Your tight squish is really helpful.

Retarding the cam will bleed a little combustion pressure at lower rpm, but will increase pressure above 4,500 rpm (and your Procharger makes more boost with rom so be careful).

Are you EFI or carb?
Detonation is sometimes hard to detect with boost - knock sensors and EGTs help, but familiarity reading plugs (for detonation, mixture, and proper hear range) is especially useful.

Carb or holley sniper style efi.

JaniH 01-04-2021 03:26 PM

Valve stem to guide clearance measured, intake 0.0018",exh 0.0021". For my understanding it is fine.

mcollinstn 01-05-2021 09:28 PM

Your stem clearance is normal.
If you were looking at a high boost motor, the guide material and stem clearance would be more of an issue, as well as the exhaust seat width and face width at the hot "edge" of the valve.
At your low boost numbers, it's not a huge worry.
You do need to monitor charge temperature (IAT) exiting the throttle body and make sure it stays under 150 degrees. Sometimes you're fine for short bursts, yet long pulls WOT start crawling upwards as the intake plumbing Temps rise. Let that be your signal to back off the sticks a bit or add cooling capacity between the blower and the plenum.

tripps 01-05-2021 10:04 PM

Procharger
 
How about a 502 with stock cam 1622 Marc 483 lift very mild duration???

tripps 01-05-2021 10:05 PM

Pro
 
Merc cam

JaniH 01-07-2021 02:26 AM


Originally Posted by GPM (Post 4771452)
Maybe add an intercooler for safety, are you planning to run a thermostat in the engine ?


Originally Posted by mcollinstn (Post 4771871)
Your stem clearance is normal.
If you were looking at a high boost motor, the guide material and stem clearance would be more of an issue, as well as the exhaust seat width and face width at the hot "edge" of the valve.
At your low boost numbers, it's not a huge worry.
You do need to monitor charge temperature (IAT) exiting the throttle body and make sure it stays under 150 degrees. Sometimes you're fine for short bursts, yet long pulls WOT start crawling upwards as the intake plumbing Temps rise. Let that be your signal to back off the sticks a bit or add cooling capacity between the blower and the plenum.

I have been considering to use the gm lifter valley baffle. Now when the boost came In the play I definetly going to order the baffle. Thanks!

https://paceperformance.com/i-630462...il-shield.html
​​​​​

green lightning 01-07-2021 01:09 PM

I had similar engine's to yours but I had dart aluminum heads and vortech superchargers and they never really ran right until I added the intercoolers

GPM 01-07-2021 07:46 PM


Originally Posted by JaniH (Post 4772053)
I have been considering to use the gm lifter valley baffle. Now when the boost came In the play I definetly going to order the baffle. Thanks!

https://paceperformance.com/i-630462...il-shield.html
​​​​​

That will do very little to keep the intake air temp down. Procharger recommends not running a thermostat to keep the engine from detonating, along with the intercooler. I wouldn't be surprised to see 180, 190 IAT after about 3 seconds of boost without an intercooler.

JaniH 01-08-2021 10:36 AM


Originally Posted by GPM (Post 4772180)
That will do very little to keep the intake air temp down. Procharger recommends not running a thermostat to keep the engine from detonating, along with the intercooler. I wouldn't be surprised to see 180, 190 IAT after about 3 seconds of boost without an intercooler.

Have to add the cooler to the shopping list!

JaniH 01-08-2021 11:07 AM

What you think about aluminum coolers with Closed cooling? I quess stainles cooler with raw water better but those expensive.

green lightning 01-08-2021 12:05 PM

I don't think I ever saw a stainless steel intercooler , but I would imagine that they would be pretty heavy . When I made my intercoolers I used Bell Intercoolers for my cores and they added what they called a marine protective coating to them, I have run them for 3 years with no problems but I boat in fresh water .

GPM 01-08-2021 02:08 PM


Originally Posted by JaniH (Post 4772272)
What you think about aluminum coolers with Closed cooling? I quess stainles cooler with raw water better but those expensive.

Are you running in salt water ?

JaniH 01-08-2021 02:31 PM


Originally Posted by GPM (Post 4772293)
Are you running in salt water ?

Yes.

GPM 01-08-2021 03:37 PM

I don't know what brand to use but you would still be better off running an intercooler, in my opinion.


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