How Cold?
 

I am looking at a boat with 502 motors with B&M blowers. I told the owner that I had to hear the motors run and drive the boat before I would buy it. He wouldn't put the boat in the water because it was too cold, about 38 degrees. He was afraid the cold temp would hurt the motors. Is this too cold for the motors? He uses 15-50 oil.

I dont think so....ive been out in mine in low 40* weather before....depends on the lake temps though....it just may take a bit longer to fully warm up if the lake has turned over

depends on the water temp not air and lake mich is about 49 right now simialr to temp in may actually, not much dif than water temp of 59 and we run in that 1/2 the seaason even tho air temp may be anywhere from50-100 (may, june, oct)

I also would not make a hard run (or any run for that matter) in that cold of water. That has to be really hard on the engine running ice water through it. If you need to hear it run put it on a hose.

It would be in Lake Michigan and I wouldn't expect a WOT type of run but before I will buy the boat I have to at least hear it start. The hose water is probably close to the lakes temp. I drove 4 hours to see the thing. If he wants to sell it, he should be willing to start it. Don't you think?:confused:

A sea-trial should always be a one of the three conditions of the sale, the other two being personal inspection (like if the boat was in Florida and you were in Michigan) and a survey. This gives you three outs if something doesn't look or feel right about the deal. If the owner would prefer not to let you sea-trial the boat until spring you can still continue with the deal by putting a mutually agreeable sum of money in escrow, which would be payable to the seller in the spring after the successful sea-trial is completed.
If you haven't already had the boat surveyed I'd encourage you to have it done, including an engine survey. It's well worth the money you'll spend on it, and many insurance companies will not insure without a current survey. All that being said, if someone came along and said they would buy my boat if I'd take it out on a sea-trial I'd go on the sea-trial, even in the cold water we have in Michigan now.

Crazyhorse

Thats good advise. I was trying to think of a way to hold the boat without actually paying for it before a sea-trial. He offered to come to my location for the first run in the spring but thats not good enough. The boats in Traverse City,Mi. How do I go about finding a survey firm there?

While I don't totally agree with him not running the motor for a sale, I do understand what could possibly be his his point of veiw.

In cold water, or even on the hose, those motors will NEVER get any temps to them, water or oil. If they only run a minute on the hose, it should be ok, but any longer, he now has 2 motors that have condensation in them. A simple oil change will not get rid of the condensation, it will be built up in the lifter galley, and other places. So over winter, there is a very good chance of the cam and lifters pitting do to the moisture. Follow me? 1st hand experience! (= new lifters and repolish cam) Remember, these are blower motors. Most have trouble even in the summer getting any temps.

If a deal was made as everything else was to your likings and you were going to buy the boat if the motors started and ran fine, then he should start it and let you worry about the condenstation. BUT, if you just wanted to hear the motors with no agreed upon deal in the works, then no, I wouldn't start them either.
Possibly he didn't feel you were serious enough in it to warrant the chance of you not buying it. Not saying you were just prop kicking, but he does have an investment involved that he must protect until the green is flashed and not just kicked around.

Just a possible insight from a sellers point of view.

He must be somewhat serious to have driven 4 hours.
I drove 8 hours in one direction and 5 the opposite way to look at boats before I bought mine. Put a deposit on one in March in NH but that depended on a good survey AND sea trail once the lake thawed. Survey failed miserably so forget the sea trial. Bought the one in VA instead. Three years later it's still:D :D :D

I agree, but there is a huge difference from making an 8 hr drive and paying out $xx,xxx, or $xxx,xxx.
I have made several up to12 hr round trips to look at boats for sale. Ended up finding mine only 1 hr away. Ain't that the way it always is? :rolleyes: Hearing the motors run was not a requirement during the negotiations, but naturally it was for a sale.
I was only throwing out a 'possible' explanation. No more. I would have to think the seller didn't think a deal was close enough to justify launching the boat were the motors may have been winterized.

Just my .02
But then, Jan1 sales tax goes up, so it's not even worth that! ;)

Quiet Storm, you can locate a surveyorthrough one of their organizations, NAMS or SAMS. I believe they both have websites. I used a surveyor located through NAMS when I needed a survey in Toronto. He made the trip from Buffalo NY to the boat in Hamilton Ontario and back without charging me travel time. He also did an oil analysis that saved me a lot of grief later on (also no extra charge). When you are talking with a surveyor about the boat you want him to look at, be sure to ask how well acquainted with that type of boat he is. Don't be afraid to ask for references. A good guy will be happy to give you some clients' names and numbers. P.S. Don't choose a surveyor just because he's the cheapest. Your survey will be the best money you ever spent.

The two surveyor accrediting organizations I'm familiar with are NAMS, www.namsurveyors.org and SAMS, www.marinesurvey.org
There are a couple in that area, one right in T.C., and another in Harrison. Probably more in the area but those were two that I found very quickly. Good luck and call me if you have any questions. Dave

Some times its funny how things work out. I was concerned about how much corrosion was on anything made of painted aluminum on the boat. For a 1999 model, it was bad. I found out that the boat was in salt water for awhile. There were some other things about the boat that I didn’t like but could of lived with. Now I’m glad he didn’t start it. I was very serious about making a deal but I will pass on this one.

Good news is I found one that I like better than the last one. The bad news is its 8 hours away. The owner said he would start it but if its not above 50 degrees I won't insist on it. The motors only have 35 hours on them.

Thanks for the info and offer Dave.

Any time. If you're in ever Holland let me know. I'll buy you a soda pop.

Good luck Quite. Im looking forward to seeing your new toy in the spring. Im a year from shopping but will be looking for somthing similar it sounds like.

Crazyhorse

The last time I was in Holland I got stuck in the mud on the north side of the lake. By the time I dug my way out, I said I will never go back there. But for a soda pop and if you tell me the safe way in, I'll come back.

Chris

If I manage to get the one I'm looking at, next year will be a very interesting boating season for me. I'll keep you posted. I hope you are healing up. Sounds like its been hell for you.

Roger

Roger, sounds like the boat is a runner with the twin engine blowers that you're considering on buying. I don't particularly care for Holland's harbor either but I do know my way around there for the most part. Besides I hear that Holland isn't too kind to performance boaters when it comes to the Marine Patrol----of course I know South Haven isn't much better and I know you boat out of there. How have they been treating the performance boaters lately in South Haven anyway? I may have to sneek into South Haven and Sautatuck next summer. I usually try to avoid Holland altogether during the summer season.

Kaama

As long as you don't appoach the river like a hot-dog and stay at idle speed in the river, they don't bother you. I've had my hand slapped for that. Come on down, I'd love to see your boat.

Roger

How much should a survey cost?

Surveys run about $17-20/foot. That does not normally include an engine check, except for maybe hooking up a Merc scan tool. If you want a leak down test, and/or compression check, expect about $100-200 per motor.
(Mid-Atlantic prices)

Roger, I usually try to be a cool customer when pulling into the harbors, but South Haven has for the most part been a harbor that doesn't take kindly to any of the offshore muscle boats that come in there---no matter how cool you are and especially if you have a RASPY sounding exhaust system----like I do. :D But I always try to show that I am a cool customer and keep a low profile in any port that I pull into. I pulled into the South Haven habor with my boat a couple of times during the 2001 season. Once during the a very HOT August weekday after work around 4pm. And another time in late September on a Saturday to fuel up at that little AMACO fuel stop on the South side of the Harbor. The fuel attendant ask me if that was me that she could hear out there on the lake a few minutes prior, and I said; "Yes, that was probably me that you heard out there". She wasn't complaining to me, but rather just letting me know that she could definately hear me from within the harbor when I cruised by out there. When I pull into South Haven I usually don't go any further into the harbor past the draw brigde. I usually turn around by the "Idler" resturaunt ship. Anyway, I have always heard of a lot of offshore boaters getting noise tickets in that harbor. Some of them I know and several years ago while riding on some friends boats I have even seen the Marine Patrol come up close and take pictures of these offshore boats with their camera and we asked them why? They just said "evidence!" ---and we asked; "Evidence of what?" and they didn't answer us as they just turned around and idled away and waited for us to leave. Actually, I have that on video. If I remember correctly they stopped one of the boats out of our group and gave them a noise ticket. This was back in like 1991. Next year I will attempt to go into the harbor and tie up and grab a bite to eat, but if I get pulled over I will probably avoid South Haven for a while. St. Joseph is much more leanient (spelling?) on boaters as long as you are a cool customer. South Haven it seems is like a roll of the dice---too unpredictable last I knew. Anyway, it sounds like you have escaped for another year..... that's good------espcially if you do all of your boating out of there! :)

KAAMA, you don't use Holland 'cause you're yella. QS, the safest way to enter Holland is by car. If you're up here this winter contact me (or any of the Team Chaos members) and we'll meet up for a liquid refreshment. I don't drink any more but I got no problem watching you have a beer.:cool:

Kaama

I think we get to break in all the rookie water patrollers. They come in with the idea that they are going to save the town folk from us terrible power boaters. It takes them about a year to settle down and leave us alone. I know they are working on a revised noise ordinance for South Haven. If it passes you won't be able to fart after 11:00 PM without getting a citation. I'll let you know how bad it is in the spring. They may make me leave town.

I've looked at two boats so far that have had problems that I could see. No need for surveys. Both have had blower motors. The problem is the owners tell me they are in great shape. Show room quality!!! Then I travel half way across the country to see a boat with problems. I found another one that I might go look at without blowers. I like this idea because I can build them up the way I want. The problem is the boats are getting further and further away from home.

Thanks for the info Brian.

Roger