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Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix
(Post 4880296)
Articfreinds,
How much HP and cam specs on the motor that you change them every 100 hours? Not unusual to put that many or more on per year here. It's really BS that in 2023 BBC lifters could not last hundreds of hours, not like this is new tech. Have you ever tried the ISKY ones SARIS mentioned? No wonder people go OB. As far as solid bushing lifters, Ive used the Isky red Zone solids in race engines (7000+ rpms/cams at 800/900 lift ect). A bushed lifter is definitely STILL a wear item. As far as a bushed lifter with Hydraulic plunger, I have NOT used them in anythiing. As far as solid rollers in general, I NEVER use them in ANYTHING unless application warrants it, Since there ARE reliable hydraulic rollers, I would never consider a solid roller lifter with bearings in the wheel/axle any more reliable they a similar hyd roller in these mild sub 6000 rpm marine engines and most mild 1000 hp or less marine blower engine in a recreational boat |
So I have an update on the lifter noise situation. I don't see any visible damage so my thoughts are to go through all the valves and verify they are correct. I do need a little help first. I have an email into comp about the pre-load. I was thinking it was 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn past zero lash but saw that rollers are only 1/4 turn?? Any insight is appreciated.
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Wow! After you adjust valve preload correctly. I would test fire and watch that rocker with valve cover off. Recheck preload. That's alot of play. Something's ****y as Bubbles would say.......
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It looks from that picture the rocker arm is off center. What procedure are you using to adjust the valves?
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So in your video you found THAT rocker that loose? IF so, hold a straight edge on poly lock acrossed other 4 or did you find the lock nut loose as in falling off? IF it was NOT loose and rockers that loose you got a lifter wheel failing or plunger collapse, pushrod tip ate off, etc
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Originally Posted by articfriends
(Post 4880797)
So in your video you found THAT rocker that loose? IF so, hold a straight edge on poly lock acrossed other 4 or did you find the lock nut loose as in falling off? IF it was NOT loose and rockers that loose you got a lifter wheel failing or plunger collapse, pushrod tip ate off, etc
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Originally Posted by PQ290Enticer
(Post 4880822)
I put a straight edge on them (4 exhaust nuts) and they all seam to be at the same level.
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Originally Posted by sutphen 30
(Post 4880823)
are all the exhaust valve stems about he same,,is the rocker arm stud still tight.hoping its not a lifter or cam lobe problem.
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After taking the slop out confirm with a dial indicator or small ruler to confirm opening height. Really need a solid lifter to be precise but you’ll know with your hydraulics.
(Cam lobe) IMO |
Originally Posted by getrdunn
(Post 4880843)
After taking the slop out confirm with a dial indicator or small ruler to confirm opening height. Really need a solid lifter to be precise but you’ll know with your hydraulics.
(Cam lobe) IMO |
Originally Posted by PQ290Enticer
(Post 4880822)
I put a straight edge on them (4 exhaust nuts) and they all seam to be at the same level.
I would NOT adjust it being that loose and go out on the water, caught in time may mean difference between a teardown, new cam and lifter, clean and inspect engine vs all kinds of damage, lifter bore destroyed, etc |
Originally Posted by TomZ
(Post 4880307)
For Gen VI engines, what about factory GM? Their performance lifter is a tall body, p/n 17120060, and supports the camshaft in the 572/620hp (.623 lift - 254/264 @ 050). I would imagine that it would be more than capable for most of what people here would use. I haven't heard too many people complaining about them either.
This would be useful for those that have factory roller blocks. I was going to go that route but ended up with a nice set of Crane lifters. I don't intend to run past 5800-6000. Short stints at that. Duration in the upper 22Xs at most, and Exh maybe a tad more. Upper 0.5XX lift. 1.8 int -1.7 ex. Seems Comp Products went South after Crane pulled pin? Is that just a coincidence? Seems odd there is so much gaslighting going on on performance products. Certainly with flat tappet cams, and now lifters as well. The Cummins solid flat lifters seem to work well and reliable...as a mushroom style with big diameter contact surface. BAM lifters...seems they only have solids. What are the benefits of running wider lifters for marine? |
Originally Posted by articfriends
(Post 4880888)
so I gotta imagine IF you tighten that nut down until preload is correct IF you repeat the straight edge test that nut bwill be .100+ low. since roller lifters dont really "wear" it leads you to it having a stuck pluger or a failing lobe and lifter wheel. Let us know
I would NOT adjust it being that loose and go out on the water, caught in time may mean difference between a teardown, new cam and lifter, clean and inspect engine vs all kinds of damage, lifter bore destroyed, etc |
Originally Posted by F-2 Speedy
(Post 4880906)
PQ, I have to agree with Smitty, there is something major wrong with that.
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Originally Posted by Tartilla
(Post 4880896)
What are the benefits of running wider lifters for marine? https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads...fters.1809794/ my old comp craps on the left ,Morels on the right. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b253b3ad5.jpeg so far so good. |
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Originally Posted by 87MirageIntruder
(Post 4880927)
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Did you talk with your builder before you tore it down?
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Originally Posted by Rookie
(Post 4880960)
Did you talk with your builder before you tore it down?
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Seems to me like a bad plunger. You should be able to replace the pair of lifters and go from there.
Setting the preload is lifter-specific and I would not deviate from Comp’s instructions. The 854-16 requires a 1/2-turn of preload (.025). Once you’ve narrowed it down to just the lifter, purchase another pair. Pull your bad lifter pair and return to Comp for a replacement (to keep on-hand). Replace the bad pair with the one you just bought. They’re warrantied for one year to the day of purchase so unless you’re beyond that, I’d make a Comp give you another pair. You could go about changing out all of the lifters for another brand, but personally, I wouldn’t. You’d need to measure for new pushrods, etc. plus the really high cost of the lifters. You probably just have a bad apple in there, and since it seems preload may be a variable, might best to correct what you have and move on. That’s my thought anyway. |
Those lifters are junk. I would not replace just one set and have to worry about when the next set fails and takes out the entire engine.
Whats more expensive, set of lifters and pushrods or an engine rebuild? That being said he has no idea what`s wrong so who knows what it is.. just a guessing game at this point |
Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
(Post 4881029)
Those lifters are junk. I would not replace just one set and have to worry about when the next set fails and takes out the entire engine.
Whats more expensive, set of lifters and pushrods or an engine rebuild? That being said he has no idea what`s wrong so who knows what it is.. just a guessing game at this point |
I'll bet a dollar it is a stuck plunger. had that happen on at least one of several sets of comp lifters which is why I refuse to use them. the last one was a flat tappet motor with about an hour of run time. I pulled the lifter and was able to get it apart and polished the bore and the edge of the plunger and it is still working but I have limited faith in the rest of them.
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Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
(Post 4881029)
Those lifters are junk. I would not replace just one set and have to worry about when the next set fails and takes out the entire engine.
Whats more expensive, set of lifters and pushrods or an engine rebuild? That being said he has no idea what`s wrong so who knows what it is.. just a guessing game at this point Last time I used a set of comps was shortly after graduating high school so been a while. Anyone know who makes them for comp this day and age? When my builds were in the dream stage the lifter subject was on roids so I went solid and never looked back. Really glad I did and just ck lash once a season! The solids in a couple of my muscle cars rarely need an adjustment when I ck those about every other year now. |
Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
(Post 4880920)
The cost of machining a block to accept .904 lifters isn`t bad . The lfiters a bit more expensive but they are quite a bit beefier than a .842, thats the route I went .
https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads...fters.1809794/ my old comp craps on the left ,Morels on the right. so far so good. Im just here for the lifter discussion, were upgrading a friends boat this winter and dont want to go the wrong way. |
Originally Posted by articfriends
(Post 4880289)
Lifter issues (IF thats even what you got going on) have became a real big deal in past 10-15 years. Heres my experience/opinion on it: I used Morel lifters (hyd rollers) when they became a "thing" back in 05/06, running 180/195 seat and close to 500 lbs open up to 6300 in my own blower engine WITH 20/W 50 oil. Never had a tick or issue. Retired them at every refresh interval at about 100 hours. Also used them in quite a few customers builds with no issues regardless of oil weight. Fast forward, no matter what lies CHRIS S####B, JOHN C#####S perpetuate, around 2014 they changed something. They sped up production, sent lifter bodies to Mexico or China, IDK BUT they started having failures , plungers failing/sticking. tie bars breaking, roller wheels disintegrating. CHRIS SXXXXB in conversation on FB made THIS statement: They ONLY have 1 pair of lifters out of a 1000 sets that fail, thats funny because I flow/clean injectors for several other engine builder/dyno guys in this business and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS HAD FAILURES and will never buy Morels again. The comps are a step below, seen guys have failures on street engines before 5000 miles with them.
As far as hyd flat tappets, the ONLY engines I build with them anymore are class rule engines that dictate you run them (which is rare for me), and I wont warranty them in any way, shape or form. I put it in writing that any failure is customers problem and make them sign it as cam core/lifter construction has went right in the trash..Ive used johnson lifters successfully in last 40 or 50 mild bbcs ive built with no isuues. I had one customer who i used the Morels with from that 2014/2015 era, in 2019/2020 Bob M who had sold them to me asked if customer had any issues with them. I said NO except they were noisy cold. He highly recommended changing them before they failed. I mentioned this to the customer who said nah, Im selling boat soon anyways, not worried about it. a couple rides later one failed and destroyed his cam, lifter bore etc and trashed his whole engine. Was around 150 hours IF I remember correctly |
Originally Posted by getrdunn
(Post 4881118)
Last time I used a set of comps was shortly after graduating high school so been a while.
Anyone know who makes them for comp this day and age? When my builds were in the dream stage the lifter subject was on roids so I went solid and never looked back. Really glad I did and just ck lash once a season! The solids in a couple of my muscle cars rarely need an adjustment when I ck those about every other year now. Then again, everywhere takes longer to get there in it :) |
Mystery has been solved. Got the intake off and it looks like the plunger is stuck. Push rod looked fine. Cam lobe looked fine too. I am going to order a replacement set and button this up.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...fdde8474c8.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...739793e1ca.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...cc90c4d41d.jpg |
that was my guess so do I get my dollar now?
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Originally Posted by compedgemarine
(Post 4881356)
that was my guess so do I get my dollar now?
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I would make Comp eat that. And if going with the same lifter make sure to now overdo the preload. That really seems to mess them up.
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Originally Posted by TomZ
(Post 4881403)
I would make Comp eat that. And if going with the same lifter make sure to now overdo the preload. That really seems to mess them up.
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When the next set goes at least you`ll already know the sound.
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Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
(Post 4881423)
When the next set goes at least you`ll already know the sound.
lol!!! Your optimism is coming through loud and clear👍 |
Originally Posted by PQ290Enticer
(Post 4881449)
lol!!! Your optimism is coming through loud and clear👍 |
Originally Posted by cheech
(Post 4881460)
I think he may be hinting to not get any more Comp lifters.
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Are you going to go with Johnsons or?????
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Originally Posted by 87MirageIntruder
(Post 4881465)
Are you going to go with Johnsons or?????
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Originally Posted by cheech
(Post 4881460)
I think he may be hinting to not get any more Comp lifters.
You can lead a horse to water.... |
Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
(Post 4881476)
I`m not hinting , everyone in this thread (exept one) told him those lifters are no good, (pictures and everything) but he goes with the just replacing the one set . :picard1:
You can lead a horse to water.... |
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