Diodes question
 

Does anyone have a schematic or know which diodes to use when the trim pumps are hooked together, but I want them to work independently?

If you are triggering the relays only, any in line diode rated for .5 amp or so would be plenty.

https://www.marineindustrieswest.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=2&catid=16&productid=4 009
https://www.marineindustrieswest.com/installation/Twin_Diode.pdf
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...700e95bdaa.jpg

"This diode kit allows the usage of one trim switch to control two 12V operations. Commonly used for single trim switches to control two outdrives or two trim tabs with Oildyne trim pumps"

If i`m reading that right one switch controls 2 pumps.
I`m looking to control each pump seperately with a switch..

I think thats probably not possible.

so you want 3 trim switches?

What switches are you going have?? I have 3 momentary dash switches (port/both/starb) and 1 switch on my throttle to control both. It can be done with 2 switches in your throttles also.

You looking to use one switch with two pumps?
or each pump on its own switch?
or a combo of both?

Lets see if I can explain this.
The bluetooth wireless box had 4 relays 2 green for down, 2 blue for up. That controls both pump at the same time with 2 buttons, one up one down.
I burned out 2 of the 4 relays in the Bluetooth box because I`m a dumbass and hooked it up to the trim pump load instead of the relay.

I thought I could outsmart it by using 2 relays but that required to hook both pumps together.
So the remote bluetooth switches work fine, push one button, both trim pumps work at the same time.
However what I didn`t think about is now that that both pumps are hooked together my 2 switches that control the pumps individually no longer do.. press port or startboard and they should work indiviadually but now they also work at the same time. So I have no individual control of my trim .

CP says send back box and well put a new board in it .. I`ll just do that . I tried to outsmart the box and I outsmarted myself.

I thought if I could just put a diode somewhere I could avoid the rewire and shipping etc.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...809f85b156.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...e4b596380e.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...f1876fb054.jpg

You can do what your thinking.....assuming i'm awake enough to understand what you wrote i drew this up for you. You would need 4 diodes....take the output from the Bluetooth module and split each line into two legs. So the up trigger gets split two ways and the down trigger gets split two ways...then on each leg install a diode. the silver band on the diode would be closest to the trim tab motor and farthest away from the Bluetooth module on each leg. This way they act like one way valves. So the voltage and current will pass out of the voltage module and trigger the pumps...but when you hit your dash switches it wont back feed the other circuits. Pay not attention to the diode bands in the drawing...i just did that quickly.... :)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a876936295.jpg

Wally,
the drawing is right but your bands are wrong.

At least on my phone after a couple beer

EDIT:

Wally is correct.

same thing I do for both switches on throttle and individual on dash.

FWIW, I had 1 switch on each of my Livorsi throttles.

Single switch on port throttle controlled BOTH drives.
Single switch on the starboard throttle controlled only the starboard drive.

Why? Pumps never move at the same rate.
Adjusting when planing, turning, use thumb for quick change due both to water condition via left switch.

Once ready to “cruise” fine tune starboard drive to match port OR tune to pitch bow according to cross wind or quartering seas.

It worked for me, and quite a few folks said they liked it too. Just sharing as it might be an option even for the BT wheel switches.

Just curious, are you setting up a BT PTT switch for the headset too?

Header? Not sure what you mean

The trim pumps are interconnected now so the individual switch sends power
to both pumps.

Second pic is how it should be if I didn`t blow the 2 relays in the bluetooth box.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...92c33fff7b.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...8ab2968ee7.jpg

Sorry, autocorrect.


*Headset

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b1bcb1844c.jpg
You can still use it as is...still need 4 diodes....see pic :D

These should work for you.

https://a.co/d/9bvil2m

Sweet, ordered.. ! thank you gentelmen.
Lets see if that works lol

Wally, in your first pic you have the diodes facing the blue tooth box, in the second they are facing the pumps.. does it matter ?

I hate to say it but a 5w Zener is not what you need,

These should do the job.

Dan,

I haven't poured over the drawings and I won't pretend to understand what you're trying to do with the diodes, but YES.... It matters. That's the sole purpose of a diode; to direct traffic. Think of a diode as a check valve. It only allows flow in one direction. Now you get to decide which drawing you want to go by. :angry-smiley-038:

Thanks. Brad.

Yes the bands on the diodes in the first pic were wrong...i mentioned that in the text. The bands should be closest to the item you don't want back-feed from. So in your case it would be the trim pumps.....if one gets triggered you dont want that voltage and current to travel to the other pump...its like a one way valve.
If you are unsure its very easy to take a volt meter and test them.....with one direction you wont get any voltage reading and flip it over and you will get voltage.

Wally,

Continuity also confirms this, in the even you don't have any voltage to use to check. You'll only get continuity if the current from the meter is flowing in the right direction.

Thanks. Brad.

Now you made me do math and OHM's law. You are right, those 5 watt ones will not last.

No biggie, the new ones are only $8.. cheapest thing on the boat!

Been doing electronics on/off for some 35yrs now and still have to look it up to make sure i've got the right values in the correct locations when doing the calculations! :D :ernaehrung004:

LOL, I think I have forgotten more than I know. Got my degree back in the mid 80's, sooooooooo a hint to my age!

Funny story, I was in high school auto shop when electronic distributors came out. I said I need to take some electric classes these cars may get more of this stuff. Ha, who would have known.

Im about 10yrs behind ya. Got mine mid 90's then went to work for Motorola (back when they were still decent) in their R&D dept for cell site infrastructure. I got out of there around 2000 when they started doing global layoffs. Now i'm a "Lead Engineer" (in title only LOL) for a company that makes mag-drive pumps. The only electronics i get to play with now a days is fixing my kids broken camera equipment (just changed out an NPN transistor the other day) or playing on my own stuff around the house :D Still fun to start up the ole brain cells every so often and get a refresher :D

The "zener" diodes are different than "regular" or rectifier diodes. Zener diodes allow current to free flow in one direction with a small voltage drop (~0.7V) like a regular diode. However zeners will flow in the reverse direction when the voltage reaches the rated value (12V in this case). In this case, the current would flow pretty much unimpeded in both directions.

Wattage rating depends on how much resistance is in the relay coil and the voltage used.

For example, if the relay coil measures 250 ohms, take 12V and divide it by the resistance in ohms to find how much current will flow. In this example 12V divided by 250 equals 0.048 amps. Multiply the 0.048 amps by 12V to find the wattage. 0.576 watts in this example.

Another example would be if the relay coil resistance measures 25 ohms, 12V divided by 25 equals 0.48 amps. 0.48 amps times 12V equals 5.76 watts.

There's another reason diodes may be needed in the proposed circuit besides preventing power from switches backfeeding into the blue-tooth gizmo. When a coil is energized, it produces a magnetic field that closes the relay. When power is removed from the relay coil, the magnetic field collapses back into the coil. This collapse creates a very brief voltage spike that can be quite high (>100V). If too high, it can damage the blue-tooth gizmo if it uses transistors as opposed to mini relays in it's output section.

I started with Moto in their semiconductor R&D lab (APRDL) in the mid 90's. Moto SPS later became Freescale and then NXP. Bailed from NXP abt 7 years ago. So sad to watch Moto be dismantled. It's now just a shell of what it used to be.

So it wont work? I`ll just send the box back to CP , this is too much fuc king around

A 12V zener diode won't work. Need a rectifier diode like Mbam posted.

Edit: technically speaking a zener diode rated well above 12V reverse breakdown would work if it was big enough to handle the current. I say well above 12V cause with alternator working, voltage at trim pumps would be around 14V to 15V.

The second one will work, like ZZ said. I was working and too quick on the first one.

I have the same setup on my boat with throttle switches and both on the dash, been doing that since 2008. You will be fine.

My very first job at MOTO was as a Temp at the Mobility campus in libertyville off of 45. That place was awesome! They had such a cool tool shop on site!. worked there for about 6months on the assembly line putting cell phones together. That lasted about 6months as it was brutal working a 9hr shift till 11PM then driving 45min home to my parents home in Morton grove then get up at 6AM to go to school till 12pm and repeat. Once i finished school i got lucky and got another job at MOTO but this time i was in Arlington Heights working in LDS (Lab Design and Support) Not to be confused with the HQ in Schaumburg. We were basically next town over from them so close enough. But i was there for almost 5years. Good times for sure. You could see the writing on the wall when Management was asking its employees what they could do to save money and be more efficient.....when they don't bother listening to suggestions like: Get a better driver for the Indy car team (He was crashing like every other race that year) Or stop sponsoring stupid things like Bicycle racing...or better yet don't give the upper management new cars every other year.....and nothing changes...it was only a mater of time before the vultures would be closing in on what was left of a once great company.