Not as good as a modern Big Block Chevy unless supercharged
 

The 426 style Hemi is no longer used for naturally aspirated racing because to get high compression out of em you have to use an extremely tall (heavy) piston with a huge dome. They can not use modern high lift camshafts either. I may be wrong but I believe that with high lift and long duration camshafts the valves will actually hit each other.

The 426 style Hemi is still excellent for a low compression supercharged engines because you then use a flat top (lightweight) piston. Supercharged engines don't require high valve lift camshafts either.

The modern big block Chevy (in naturally aspirated form, carb or EFI) will run away and hide from any naturally aspirated 426 style Hemi.

The technology of the 426 style Hemi is ancient, but Mopar is Pro Stock racing a new design Hemi (with two four barrels) that is doing well.

Even though they are old technology I would give my left testicle for a 1970 Cuda with a Hemi!

Two cents worth of knowledge from an old and loyal Mopar guy!

Sincerely
Dennis Moore

Check out which engine rules the super stock class racing in NHRA. This could turn into an endless king of the big blocks tussle.
My money's on Chrysler.

Dennis,

A buddy just bankrolled and witnessed the birth of a 530 inch Hemi of his dreams. He is like me and has built many motors on his own, but did not trust himself to properly do a Hemi with all of the "mystical tricks" to set one up properly. He had a older guy in Indiana set up the motor and used Indy aluminum heads and an Indy crossram.

I'm fairly sure I remember correctly that it is 13:1 CR. I do recall talking with friend about the dome size and such, but he said the dome is not the huge dome that kills the flame front and that his CR comes from it being a stroker.

All I know is that he runs race gas (sometimes he runs Nutec cut into it) and it dynoed with accessories (less PS pump) and full exhaust (4" flowmasters all the way out) at just a hair under 900 hp. Seen the sheets. 5800 rpm, to boot. I know he's happy.

BUT, if you want to talk about bang-for-the buck it's a different league altogether. His rocker setup cost over $4000.

It's in a street car. A PERFECT B-body Coronet with frame connectors and a Dana 60 w/MW axles. Mini-tubbed and running 13"ers. Not for race, just cause he wanted it.

Car has no practical application, especially racing. Has no traction - at all. Has never been opened up in the car, never for more than 3 seconds at a time. Can squeeze into the pedal at 80 and just meter out wheelspin on demand.

It's a sight to be sure, but only a Mopar faithful could understand the effort, money, and time time time time that has gone into this car.

I'll stick to Chevys...

There's an interesting article of a newly designed hemi-type of engine in this months (January) Powerboat Magazine on page 46. A guy by the name of Tim Grose of Millennium Motors has been helping (with Joe Schubeck) develope a hot new dual overhead cam engine that looks promising in the offshore racing arena and hi-tech marine performance world. It appears that this engine will be going places soon! Fennville, Michigan is only 30 minutes south from where I live and only about 5 miles from the Skater factory in Douglas/Saugatuck, MI. I stopped by Tim's shop yesterday and knocked on his door. He invited me in and showed me a few of these engines. He had a black and white checkered flag tiled floor that was practically clean enough to eat off of.

Tim is a pleasent guy to talk to and is very professional. I told him that I certainly didn't have near deep enough pockets for his stuff, but he was still very humble towards me. He even took a phone call from a guy who was selling magnetic business cards while I was standing there, and was patient enough to listen to the guy's sales pitch, but politely told him that he wasn't interested. Tim was even kind enough to wish the guy the best in his sales before he hung up.

Tim seems to have a TON of outside interest in this new engine design and I believe he will do well with it. It will be interesting to follow his project.

I saw one of those motors run in a fuel car years ago. If they get the packaging right it will be a tremendous boat motor. Nothing breathes like a Hemi with an iron lung!

Are you the Dennis Moore that wrote "Big Block Chevy Marine Performance"? I just bought the book.

Dennis

Would you consider the "New" Pro-stock engines an actual hemi considering they are just a DRCE combustion chamber turned sideways so the spark plug goes through the valve cover ?

How'd you make out with the bypass testing ?

Doug
Tech @ Barry Grant, Inc.

Right on RumRunner!!
I have also noticed over the years that if you start to outrun the hemis, they adjust the rules to "even the field"
In 1967 a friend had a hemi Road Runner and I had a 396 in a 55 Chevy. He blew me away. After so much mouth, I challenged him to race once a week for two months. We would chain our hoods down and give the other the key. I won. He finally had to "service" his engine and I did not. Hemis need a lot of TLC. They are great, but they do have drawbacks.
Notice also, NOONE is using the tru hemi head in anything anymore,

By defination the NEW HEMI is a hemishperical chamber. And every top fuel motor land or water is based on a Chyrsler Hemi.

Come one guys, when your the best gunfighter everyone wants to have a gun fight with you.
Blown 1500 Daytona 1969 1-2-3 nuff said, thats when NASCAR got out the pencil to "even the field". As far a a Hemi needing lots of TLC you are 100% correct, but most real, not street based, HIGH performance/race motors will need some maintaince to keep in a high state of tune, thats just the nature of the beast .
Formula- that coffee can full of rocks is a signature sound, trust me the guys who've been around the block a time or two know whats under my hood before I even open it. It's just part of the Hemi mistique. Ford, and Chevy guys alike respect the Hemi, it's just a neat motor, all brand loyalty aside.

A fuel motor cylinder head, and the new pro-stock heads are completely different.

Formula- Just ask anyone whose had the displeasure of meeting me at a stoplight!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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(virtual burnout) HE HE Damn, I can't wait for spring!

Rumrunner is 100% correct, different animal

Sonic30ss,
What have you got???????

Rum Runner,

You are correct about the new Dodge pro stock heads. They are a canted valve head. Until recently, the Hemi valve train was too heavy to accelerate and remain at the rpms that modern pro stock motors run. I also believe that there are two serious efforts to run a true hemi design motor in pro stock. Looks like modern materials finally caught up with the Hemi's potential

Blown 1500- I've got a 68 Charger R/T, came stock with a 440 4bbl, then put in a 440 6 pac, then changed the stock 6 pac to a Wieand super stock6 pac intake with nitrous.
Now I've got a 65 race Hemi 12.5 comp.,fairly mild roller cam,roller rockers, ported heads that I thought would never work (ports too large so I thought) 4.56 rear 4 spd, ect..........
It weighs in at 4060# and runs [email protected] street car no cage,slicks,suspention. Total rubber wagon, sidways in 1,2,3,settles down middle of 3rd gear, very cool street ride.
see pic @ www.teamsofaking.com look under member profiles.
I'm not saying it's the fastest car ever made, it's just loads of fun. One thing I've learned there is ALWAYS someone faster than you no matter how much money you throw at your stuff. As long as I'm having fun who gives a rats ass. I've raced guys just for the thrill of it , even when I knew it was a long shot. It's all good, I'm not trying to start car wars on OSO, just waiting for spring and bench racing like the rest of us up here in the frozen N.E.!

Formula, I'm trying to figure out if your being sarcastic. You don't really mean that about the plain jane thing do you??
I know what you mean about the not fair thing, the first night I took my 12 year old out with the Hemi, a newer Mustang GT pulled up with two young kids in it. When the light turned green I let them go, and my son says "dad what are you doing?". less than two seconds later before I got out of 1st we were by them....HE HE HE
I've been on the other side of that story so I had to pass it on to those kids......and so it goes on......

Sonic30ss, WETT VETTE, Having fun is the real game. Nice car. Add my name to the list for a Hemi anything!!!

Nice car Sonic!! You have the WETTE VETTE's older brother beat. My dads 66 427 (468 shh!) Vette turns 12.40's at the strip. It is definately a street car with a flat tappet hydraulic cam and a dual plane intake and air conditioning. I love old cars and hope to have a 71 Vette or something like that in my garage someday. :D A hemi car would be cool too!!!

All of the Mopar Sponsored Pro Stock Teams are running the Olds DRCE, I mean "New" hemi head.

Thanks, RumRunner!!!

Game on .... And ALL the top fuel/funny car/most top sportsman cars are Hemis.....So the new pro stock Hemi is a fake... I think it's just a marketing ploy to tie in with the "new" Hemi in the trucks. You know kind of like Chevys' "like a rock "thing whoooo I'm all a twitter just writing it........

Formula
Yea the sleeper image went away with the stock hood, which resides safe and warm in the garage.
YES THEY DID!

Honestly I think Chrysler came back with the Hemi in pro stock because they were tired of all the old timers walking by the Chyrsler pro-stockers and asking what kind of motor it was after the wayne county "break in" days. Those were just Pontiac headed motors with a Chrysler symbol.

It seems most die hard chrysler guys are living in the 60's

Truth HURTS sometimes, right RumRunner!
Say, did they ever figure out what those funny wires running to the Wayne County Pro Stock engines were???

Rumrunner,
Facts are facts, the truth is Mopar guys haven't had much to cheer about in the past 25-30 years. I hope things will change with the arrival of the "new" Hemi, and rear drive platforms. Even the old big block heads were a pretty lousey copy of the SBC head
with no short side on the exhaust... dogs all done by 4500 rpm.
Blown1500
pretty sure those were nitrious lines, that whole thing was a real black eye to the Mopar faithful.
I may be a die hard but facts are facts! No rose colored glasses here.

I am a chevy man all the way but the chrysler hemi is the motor to use for drag racing using a blower. It is still used today in NRHA top fuel dragsters. The same design as when it was first introduced back in the 50s. Im surprised alot of you know what a hemi is. These kids these days think performance is adding a huge wing on the back of your car and thumping bass. Kids dont understand that old school is where its at. Look at that movie Fast and The furious, Yeah it made me furious to watch that charger flip over. Come on that charger would of been 4 car lengths ahead of that JAP SCRAP in 100 feet. The only reason I saw that movie was to see the charger. All those JAp scraps running around sounded like my snowmobile. Made me sick. When I was 18 I was wrenching on real cars. Throw a set of cragar ss's on ,yellow traction bars, stuff as wide a tire on the back as you can , headers with header mufflers and intant hot rod. Those of you my age know what Im talking about. I feel kind of bad for kids these days they really dont have a vehicle to work with any more. We had real montys and impalas to work with. Times are changing. Im going to stay in my little time warp. Thank you.

Wheew.... thanks Tom I thought I was the only one on here in the time warp. I can respect anything fast, hell I hate to admit it but I've seen some pretty tastfully done jap cars, even had a hopped up turbo supra on the Hemis ass till Third gear. The kid was totaly cool and gave me the props at the next light, said how much he digs the "old stuff". Anyway for me it's old school or stay the f!*k home HEHEHE. BTW I'm not even 40 yet!

Formula

Go easy on the 944's you'll hurt my feelins.

Tom,im with you,1970,65 chevelle,396,4 speed,4.56 gears,11.80 street car,surprised quite a few 427s,455s,440s, tripps

Formula,
Boats and motorcycles, the last refuge for the gear head. I have a feeling it won't be long before they start on boat emissions, they've already started with cats on bikes, and four stroke outboards.
Although I've tuned up the wifes Jeep Grand Cherokee to run 15.2 @88 and still pass emissions. That thing is loads of fun at the stop light grand prix ....

Formula,
The computers don't scare me too much, there are some really good efi guys out there, you just have to find one who will work with you. I feel efi is the way to go for torque and economy, and emissions.
I've surprised some newer mustangs, especially on the highway, the speed limit/ rev limit have been removed and raised on the computer so it just keeps pulling, the spedo shuts off @ 125 and returns to 0 but the thing just keeps pulling HE HE. I don't know top speed but it's up there. Of course I have good tires, shocks,brakes,....

The closest thing to a computer on the Hemi is the MSD 6 Digital ignition, it was the best thing I could have done for the motor. With a 1050 dominator and no choke, I'd have to keep my foot on the throttle while cold. With the MSD I can start it up and walk away. Although I've been thinking of injecting it, ALL the funds are pouring into the Sonic right now!
The top speed on the Hemi is kind of limited right now by the 4.56 gears, I've hit 6500 on the highway not for long, but it was crazy with light torsion bars, 90/10 shocks, bias plys and drum brakes it was not something I'll do everyday.(can you say front end lift) I fugure it was around 130+/- I've done some figuring and with 5spd O.D. trannny and lower gears, I'd be at ludicrous speed of 180, probably limited by aerodynamic drag at that point and not able to reach that computer estimated speed. I'm content with it for now, at least I'll be the first one to the marina!

Oh, I get it... I was refering to the Jeep in that comment about surprising Mustangs. The performance computer does all that.

The MSD has, a start retard untill 800 rpm,two step rev limit,high rpm/nitrous retard, and dials to set rpm limits instead of "pills".
And most important a spark that you can almost weld with!

I agree about the highway thing, I've only done it once, and thats all I plan on.