Ranking Hyd. Steering Systems
 

I'm thinking of adding a single-ram tie-in system to my boat. I don't need more than that as my boat barely reaches 70mph. I would like everyone's opinion in ranking the following systems starting with the best:

Latham (Price ??- Teague is closed today)
Marine Machine ($1399.99 @ CP + Brazil valve adapter)
IMCO ($1350.00 @ CP + Brazil)
WPM ($1299.99 @CP - includes everything)

The order I've shown above is my rather uninformed impression of their rank. But I've heard that they are ALL top quality systems.

I've used WPM for 12 years with not one ,even one failure
its easy to install and works good ,be sure to fax them the order to be sure to get it straight and they will help you alot :D
I think WPM makes the cyl. for Imco :confused:

I just added Imcos' full hydraulic dual piston system. It is overkill for me, but I figured I would be covered for future upgrades of power. The system was easy to install. Works real well also.

Latham's list plice for add-on system is $1857.68

I just bought the Imco add on single system straigt from Imco. It was $1235 plus $145 for the kit for inside the transom, (Brazil valve and hook ups). I bought the Imco because I was told you could add a hydraulic helm or another cylinder later. Imco told me I would get the most benefit from adding the hydraulic helm later.

I have a WPM dual ram on my Fountain and it is top quality hardware, three years old and still looks brand new!

At seventy mph, they are all going to do the job well, but when it comes down to drive attachment, the Marine Machine is going to be the strongest. Any hydrodynamic side loading on that cylinder transmitted to an end cap on a drive is going to be a lot weaker than transmitting it to the drive mount itself.
And I agree, the Marine Machine is like jewelry for your boat.

It looks to me like the WPM attachment is similar to the Marine Machine attachment.

I have run the WPM for a number of years on two boats. Top quality stuff and it works well. I do have higher steering effort on my unit, I believe due to the Helm capacity.
I would talk to Maxx and Alfster on the board. They are making a high quaility steering setup for a reasonable price!! Good luck in your search.

Dick

Another manufacturer that you may want to consider is World Class Marine out of Sandusky, OH. They have an end cap design, similar to a Latham or Imco. But, their design keeps the tie bar on the centerline of the drive for better geometry. If $'s are no object, I would buy the Marine Machine system. But, any of the manufacturers listed should easily work fine for your application.

It is and they both are bullet proof ((hope no ones shootig at you though )) WPM has been in it longer than marine machine so ,,,,,marine machine looks likes WPM
TOM STOLARTZ that started WARLOCK owns this WPM company
and has made steering for years ,,ask for helm with a faster turn rate or try increasing the flow to the helm and only use syn fluid in hyd steering (it won't foam)
Call Tommy at wpm ask him how to drill the steering pump to ease steering 909-371-8247 :D :D

Alright, that's it. I'm doin' WPM !!

Thanks for the tips Bobby, but I'm only getting an external tie-in system for now, no hyd. helm. I think your last few tips related to a hyd. helm, correct??

Yep and the add on system works great and is all most people need :D :D

And Bobby, I'm going to get the optional Kevlar vest as well. You never know these days. :crazy:

Yes kevlar maybe smart if your boat is loud ,my nebours bought a lot from me on a point of land that is in the main channel on the river I live on and they cuss out my buddies for making waves and noise when coming to my house !! smart to buy on the main channel on a river and not like waves and noise !!!

I have the single ram IMCO. It has worked fine for me so far mounted on a Bravo I running in the 70's.
Too Old is right about the mounting bracket though. I just bought a new drive and will be buying a new backet because the old one is scuffed. Other than that its been good to me.
There is a special (stepped) bit that you are going to need to drill into the drive. You can borrow mine if you dont want to buy it. LMK

WPM

Not really ...Marine Machine was building stuff for they're own boat company way before Wpm got into it. From what I understand WPM bought out John Connors and thats how they got into this market. If memory serves correctly M&M have been around since the mid to late 80's mind you they built everything for themselves before they actually started selling to the other mfg's out there.;) I remember the old M&M race boat from 1988,1989 era.

I just added IMCO's add on steering to my Formula. Seemed like good quality stuff, but as Tantrum stated, you do have to drill into your drive case and tap two holes to mount the new mounting cover on the drive. It is kinda a scary process because there isn't a lot of aluminum there and I was scared of cracking the case while tapping the holes. I don't think I've really ever heard a bad thing stated about any of the systems mentioned on the board...

WPM did buy out Conners and made Marine Machice cylinders for years and marine machine made their own wing plates ect. then MM had money trouble and was almost down for the count and the owner truly as I was told today hit the lottery and bought new equipment and started making thier own stuff but WPM was first with the complete steering after Latham ,
Today unlike a few WPM uses steel braided hoses and ect and other us rubber on most parts ,,,the boat man. will say I'll give you hyd steering and you can get the cheap stuff so becareful :D :D

One company even uses cast wing plates and rubber hoses :) :)

XS Performance Marine......Maxx and Alfster. These guys are excellent to work with and are making great systems. On top of the fact that they are OSO'ers and can be found right here on the board. I just installed a dual ram from these guys and it is great...definitely top of the line stuff.

My pick goes to them.....

Seeya:)

I vote for WPM. Ive got a system on my boat, no problems and everything looks great.

Give XS a shot. They are excellent OSO members trying to get a company started based on extreme quality and performance. I bought their dual ram external full hydraulic system for twin TRSs. If you can find better service and quality, buy it, but XS deserves your consideration. Bob.

Sorta but not quite . When MM first started they were buying cylinders from Connors..not WPM. In fact this is where the original Mayfair name came into play. You see Brett May was John Connors buddy and was the link to the cylinders and MM made the rest of the stuff. Thats when they decided to give customers a choice other than Latham.You see before Latham there was Mac McMillan makin stuff for the local boat companies and likes of Bobby Moore and such. That was back in '80's. By 1990 MM decided to get real serious and bought its first CNC machines. At this point everything started to be produced in house and has been ever since.
Now as for the money issue....HAHA....this was one of the funniest pranks I've ever been privied to. It all started as a joke with one customer...and he told 2 friends..and they told 2 friends...you get the picture. This joke is still laughed about today by them. time went by Brett moved on and the MM name took presidence again. Then Stolarz sold the boat company (Warlock)and bought Connors out. This was I believe in the mid-90's. Well the rest is pretty much known. Trust me I know.....I've known the MM guys since they were building the Midnight Express boats.

Oh yeah I forgot....there are 2 owners at MM not 1....

anyways thats my little trip down memory lane.

Talk to someone in - the -know about helm displacement. I know that it has been an advantage to run larger capacity (displacement) helms on our pad bottom boats. ;) Most manufacturers install.... or kits will have, an 80cc helm. I installed a 125cc helm/full twin drive Imco kit. A little quicker response, fewer turns lock-to-lock, and makes our "loose" @ speed Velocities (22' and 32' especially) easier to drive, with less wheel work to keep the boats "squarely" on the pad at speeds over 80 mph. :D The next commonly available helm displacement is 160cc...too quick for rec. use for most. My boat is left in fresh water 5 mos a year and the stuff has held up well other than the plating on the cylinder end caps which had cosmetic issues by the end of the first season. :mad: They have gone to a better quality end cap and line fittings a couple years ago I believe. The tie bar is very nice stuff. My system and install is six yrs. old. Don't be afraid to drill and tap the case...it's cake, just take your time and use plenty of light oil. ;)

I have to agrea with Allan and Ren3 I have an XS Performance system on my boat and have been very happy with the level of service that I have recived. Alfster and Maxx were both great to deal with.

Re: Ranking Hyd. Steering Systems
 

ttt

Hi BigDogg,

How well did you know the McMillen family? If these are the same guys, old time Miami boys, machinists, mechanics and raceboat guys, Tommy is a very good friend of mine.

He's a mechanic working at the local Donzi dealer in my town and I have known him for years. Helps me out a bunch with my 35' Mistress. Keep trying to get him to bring his machines over and set up shop in my building, go back to the way things were in the old days.

Let me know if we are thinking about the same guys.

Harry

Re: Ranking Hyd. Steering Systems
 

I'd appreciate it if anyone has them that the web links to these guys be posted. I've got some parts for external steering (Wing plates I thingk) that I was going to sell but since there are no takeds I think I'm going to replace the old TRS system with the external "jewlery".

Also--does anyone recognize the manufacturer of the parts I've got--pics attached.

Re: Ranking Hyd. Steering Systems
 

Those wing plates look like the older style Marine Machine wing plates.

Re: Ranking Hyd. Steering Systems
 

A Mayfair Single Ram Add-on System With The Brazil Valve Runs $1375.98. This Comes With All Stainless Braided Hoses Inside And Out, High Polished Steering Cylinder Assembly, End Cap And All Hardware With Instructions To Make Installation A Breeze.

Re: Ranking Hyd. Steering Systems
 

XS Performance Marine I installed one of their systems last summer .Great system and great to work with.

Re: Ranking Hyd. Steering Systems
 

Sorry for having to use a different nik..had to get rid of the old one(hadn't been here for a while..lost the password to it)
and yes I was reffering to Tommy and his dad Mac. Tommy is a nice guy and his dad was very talented.The 80's and 90's burned Tommy out.... Man I thought this thread was dead and burried....lol look at all the people selling steering now!

Re: Ranking Hyd. Steering Systems
 

I added the WPM add system this winter, I bought the dual ram system because I thought it looked better, I ended up only putting on one ram though but the wing plate is still set up for two. Maybe I'll add it later, didn't have the room without moving some stuff on the floor and figured one ram was good enough. I just didn't feel like relocating my trim pump and sea strainer.
The hardware was top notch, steel braided lines, nicely plished rams and wing plate, super heavy duty constuction. I dont know if you could actually make it any better.
If there is one thing I dont like about it, its the directions, they give you a pretty good idea of how to mount the brackets for the rams to the transom, but if you put them where they say to your steering would be limited alot more than if you take the time, mount them to the wing plate and turn your drive side to side, up and down, and get the maximum movement possible out of your drive. It took some time to do and a someone to help me line everything up but I have like 99% of my total steering still.
I also used a rotary laser level to line up the bracket before mounting it. If I would have mounted the other side I could have gotten it pretty close to perfect with that laser. You can just set it up behind the boat and shoot a line across the back of your transom, you can also set it up so shoot a vertical line up the transom as well by turning it on its side.