540 n/a help (little long)
 

here is the breakdown 540 with 6.385 rods 10.25 compression with canfeild,s 315cc runners, roller cam, lightning headers,ok i wanna make 800 hp is it possiable n/a? my questions are
(1) i have a dart intake and a rpm performer air gap that are 4150 base with a nickerson preped 980 cfm holley do i stay with that or go dominator?
(2) what cam? i have a simular cam to the 741 but is big enough it is a roller if not which one? i have wet exhaust so i think it has to be at least 112 center line
(3) do i use a vaccume pump and run low friction rings is it worth the cost?
iin advance i apprecitate your advise
i looked under numerous other threads i could not find what i was looking for? mike with the htm has a n/a motor but he gettin a little over 650hp ouuuta his is he maxed out is 800hp asking too much
thanks bo

Nope...not 800
Let me rephrase that....not with what you have

Dan

what would it take to get that out of a n/a set 540 kinda stuck on that part because already got all the hard parts

A good start would be to pitch the nickerson carb for the 1050.
650HP would be more real world numbers

For starters I would switch the carb and intake.
I'd go with a Brodix intake and 1050 carb.
I also don't think your going to accomplish 800 hp with a hydraulic roller cam. Look at the supercat motors. I believe they are 510 ci with high compression and are making in the 800's.
Now my N/A 540 (9:1)is making around 675hp and with the current solid roller I have it is brutal on lifters. With the help of Bobby Daniels hopefully I will be getting another cam that is going to be more reliable.
A friend of mines 565's with 8.25:1cr made 720 on the dyno. He's got D-ports , the carb and intake I mentioned and a big solid roller.
I think 700-750 is reachable, but not with some of the parts you have.
Even with a 112 c/l , if you go with a sizable cam you will recieve reversion. My first try with my N/A 502 (8.5:1cr 625hp) with a cam that had some duration numbers of 258/264 @050 with tailpipes that had the water entering 18" from the elbows still had reversion. I had to switch to dry CMI's
Now I'm no pro engine builder, these are things I've learned the past few years since building this 540.

so do you think 10.25 is too high of compresion

so scarab should i use a solid roller dont mind if that is the way to go what did bobby daniels do for you the cam dept to make up for the reliablebility issues

Jim V. is getting 750 Dynoed HP out of his 540. He is running 10.5 to 1 compression to get that.
In order to get 800 HP out of your 540 you would have to run about 12 to 1 compression and other parts. Jim is running a tunnel ram intake.

Good question on the solid roller thing. Lashing valves is not too big of a deal. expecially if you have Jesel rocker arms, they make things easier. Now the reliablity issue is yet to be decided. All my friends have solid rollers in thier boats and have had better luck than I. If you go that way make sure it is a cam with low ramp speeds . It will be easier on the valvetrain.
I really don't think you need to go over 10:1.
Your going to need just the right combo of cylinder heads, cam to make the power. Although the closer you get to 800 the less reliable it is going to be.

Popular Hot Rodding magazine had an article about a Bill Mitchell n/a 800hp engine. Here's a partial parts list...

705 ci. Merlin block
Brodix-5 cylinder heads, sportsman porting
410cc intake ports.
.705 lift solid roller cams (duration not listed)
Hogan sheet metal tunnel ram with 2 1050 Dominators.

This engine made 778hp at 5000rpm. Using similar components a 540 would have to turn about 7000rpm to make the same hp. The valvetrain would be the limiting factor. Boats are not drag cars. They have to run for more than 10 seconds at a time You would be changing valvesprings and lifters twice a short Mich. season. Why not use a blower ?

Ive got a super V lite motor sitting here,that with a cam and carb change will make those numbers,but its 12:1 and youll need hot fuel.......

does any of these offshore guys use a vacume pump and low tension rings

You are not going to get 800 HP out of a 540 no mater what parts that are off the shelf and not some one off heads at 10 to 1 compression. Jim V. lives and breaths heads and his own boat has a 540 that dynos at 750 HP at 10 1/2 to 1 with a tunnel ram.

heads too small.
cam too small.
intake too small.
carb too small.
headers too small.

I agree on the 625hp number with those parts at "boat" rpms (5600).

If you put a good light ring pack with .043", .043", 3.0MM or a 1.2MM, 1.5MM, 3.0MM and run a Vac system its an easy 25hp on the dyno. I would personaly run a 1.2MM Steel top, 1.5MM THG second and a 3.0MM std. tension oil. To do this you would need custom pistons but they would be lighter and you would get more power and reliability out of the combination. Im the high performance ring guy for Perfect Circle Piston Rings and I know these combos will make power over the common 502 metric stack, 1/16" stack and the 5/64" stack. Any questions let me know.

26Scarab, I've read about some of your valvetrain problems. Have you thought about using a bigger, better flowing set of heads? That way you might be able to run a milder cam and still get good flow numbers. You can always sell your existing heads.

40Scarab,
A new set of heads is out of the budget. I'm definitly changing the cam. Hopefully in the next few weeks. I plan on getting something that is a lot slower on the ramp speeds.
I'm sure learning a lot on this cam stuff !

Tinker,
What does JimV have for a cam in that 540 ? and how high is he spinning it? It just seems like a lot of CR to make that power.
A friend has 8.25:1cr in his 720hp 565's. I watched him put 87 octane in the night before a poker run:eek:

Is that DYNOED HP on that 565 -- If you want to know more about Jim V.'s motor just ask him - he is a member of OSO. I have known Jim for a lot of years and If he could get more safe HP out of his engine he would already be doing it. If you are going to start messing around with vac pumps and lite rings then you are starting to get exotic parts. If you didn't already know Jim V does heads for a living and I have seen a lot of his work on race boats. My stock heads are some of his work. I have a 92 -34 SCARAB with 502's doing 77 GPS.
And I will be the first to admit that the boat is loaded and is a tank.

26Scarab, what parts does your friend with the 565's use. I'm going to redo my 540's this winter. His sounds like a killer combo. By the way, I'll have 2 sets of tunnel rams with duel 750s for sale if anyone's interested. Cheep.

Tinker,
Yes that is dynoed. (Tylers) And no exotic parts on those motors just a single 1150 Dominator.
I should have rephrased my question. I did not intend to start a pissing match. I was alway's under the impression that in a marine situation the more power you can make using the least amount of CR and rpm's the better. I don't do heads or motors for a living , just trying to learn as much as possible.

40scarab,
He really doesn't have anything out of the ordinary. The heads are old "D" ports , a Brodix intake, and a custom solid roller cam. The "airflow technician" that helped him out is Ron Sharp from Advanced Airflow. He used to do a lot of work for Joey Griffin (Pier57 boats) before the rules changed and i believe thier are a set of his heads on Jeff Hallets "Motorola/Gaffrig" boat.

Thanx for the info!

hey droopy can you shoot me a number i would like to talk to you about some rings

Hello,
I have 2cents worth on this one. I currently am running a 13.2:1 compression 498" BBC with good flowing ported 325 Pro 1 heads, comp solid roller (272/280 @ .050" .715" lift), merlin intake, Nickerson stage 5 1050, CMI E-tops, Dooley 10QT pan running 8QTS, full MSD. Anyway this combo is a lot of fun for running hard, but it is no pleasure boat motor. I have 30 trouble free hrs on it since last rebuild. On a motor like this valve springs and lifters need to be changed out every 50 hrs and the motor needs a complete going over at 200hrs. Even with this wild set up 800 HP would be a stretch and with the E-top exhaust it is realistically somewhere in the 725 to 750 HP range at 6200 RPM. Here is the lowdown on my 800 HP combo for next year.

598" BBC (4.6 X 4.5)
10:1 compression
355 CNC or 345 JimV ported heads
Custom grind solid roller cam (276/284 @ .050" on a 114 +4 install with .731" lift)
1200 + CFM Dominator carb.
Dart match ported intake
Full MSD Ignition
Full runner length CMI Sport Tubes or Tube Tops.

I think that would be close to 800 HP at 6000 to 6500 RPM on pump gas. Not a pleasure boat motor!!! If you put more than 15 or 20 hrs on your motor per year, go blower and hydraulic roller. I average 10 hrs per year so I will stay solid. ;)

Craig

Welcome back Budah !

thanks for reply budah
should i run the block cold even though i have alum. heads?
here are the parts i am stuck with (already bought them)
merlin block canfield 310cc heads 10.1 pistons and i have my choice of intakes dart ,rpm air gap ,or a holley knock off of the dart you know the one also a crane 139741 roller cam whata yta think power wise
bo

ttt