Cam driven water pumps and engine temp?
 

I'm thinking about using cam driven pumps on my next mills is it hard to get enough engine temp using crossovers? can you still use a thermostat??can anyone post a picture of there plumbing???I know Krumbsnatcher did once before but I cant find the picture.

Don,

As you know, I have cam driven water pumps and I am running 160* thermostats, 15-20lbs of water pressure and they work fine. In the past I have had some people tell me that they don't like cam driven water pumps because they aren't good on the valve train, but couldn't tell me exactly why.

I have also been told that they do not pump enough water to keep the engine cool----another myth!

Actually, in the beginning I had too much water pressure and could not run a thermostat until we got the pluming figured out.

I personally like the cam driven water pump a lot because it elliminates a belt & pulley which is nice because it makes keeps things simpler when you have less trinkets/dressing on the engines-----and at the same time it actually dresses up the engine nicer with the finned cast aluminum timing chain cover, a cleaner/simpler look makes it easy on the eyes and when it comes to having to change out an impeller it makes it MUCH easier prosses to get to and change out and maintain vs. the belt driven style water pump way down low that are a big pain in the arse to service! My .02 of course :)

Eddie Marine! about $350 without the plumbing....thats the timing cover and the pump, Thanks Mark Just looking to update my Christmas list!

Teague sells the impellers and rebuilt kits as well---talk to Dino. If you go with this type of set-up then it takes a little re-routing of the pluming, but once you're done with that it gives the engine a really nice/clean look. Impeller maintenance is a snap! :)

Has anybody considered an electric water pump?

An electric water pump has no parasitic drag, and no pulley or belt.

vtec

I think it would work but you would still need a seawater pump....

I just looked at Summit and they are way cheaper under $300 and they pump 30 gallons per min. anyone ever try one???wouyld it pull water from the drive without the sea water pump???that would be way cool!

The problem with electric pumps, other than the potential reliability concerns, is that you're just transfering the load on your engine from the water pump to the alternator. Most electrical systems and alternators are probably not up to the task of supplying the amperage required for an electric water pump, so at a minimum the alternator will need to be replaced for a higher output unit. So while you've eliminated the water pumps drag on the engine, you've increased the alternators drag on the engine. The additional load on the alternator, and the increased heat, combine to reduce it's durability and reliability.

With an electric water pump you've got to convert mechanical energy(crank shaft and alternator rotation) to electrical energy(alternator output), then back to mechanical energy(water pump motor/impeller rotation). Each time you convert energy, you lose some since it's never 100% efficient.

I changed over to Johnson crank mounted pumps last year.Impellers take 15 minutes to change instead of an hour in my application. These are all bronze and were $99 plus I think $16 more for a bracket to hold them. They keep my 540's cool:cool:
Got them from Basic Power Industries
Harkers Island NC
www.ebasicpower.com
Check the crank. The only minor inconvenience is you have to keep your spare belts tied back on the engine. Otherwise you must remove pump bracket to change the belt. So for emergencies I have mine right there.

I've never had any luck with electric pumps in a road race application.They're ok for drag racing,make a pass then leave the pump on while in staging.30 gal a min is not enough.Just my experience with them.BOB

mopower could you post more pics of the pump install?The only brass pump that I can find on the site is closer to $250 and $45 for the bracket do you have a part # for your pumps?

I had a cam driven water pump on a 350 in my 1975 18' Donzi. It had a Volvo 280 drive with no impeller in the drive or crank driven seawater pump. It drew water in just fine and cooled the engine great. Believe me, I did not baby it either...
I too have thought about using the same setup in other boats; it is such a pain tightening belts...
I have spoken to a number of marine mechanics about making the switch. I have not found one the has said it's a good idea???
A cam driven pump runs at half the speed as a crank driven or belt driven pump so there is no way that it can flow as much water... 3 out of 4 of the marine mechanics I have spoken to don't even like the idea of eliminating the circulation pump for a cross-over set up. You don't realy gain HP, and the more flow the better...
I have a gen VI big block Volvo setup now with a crank driven sea pump and serpentine belt driven circ. pump. By far the best I have ever had...

Dyno,
I'll get more picks tomorrow, I'm at work right now. I am looking an ad from Basic Power right now and it's $99
I did have to modify the bracket just a little. The original set up had the inlet/outlet of the pump staight up. I rotated mine to abour 8 o'clock. Used a longer hose in from the outdrive right past where the Merc pump was. Also added a gate valve so I can shut it off while in the water and change the impeller without sinking:crazy:

That looks about right sut, I'll check mine tomorrow. Its for a BB application. The small bock one is a little shorter. When I talked to them they stated it was used on a number of inboard engines.

JimV was going to use an electric pump, but for reasons I can no longer remember, he chose NOT to.

cool !!!now I nned to figure out what to do about a fuel pump.....no prvisions on the block so I guess I need an electric. Any reccomendations for an internally regulated one thats good for say 600hp?

Dyno...as requested,

After looking at it I remembered the original design was for the hose connections should be on the right( looking from front) along with the bracket. I flipped it over to the opposite side and redrilled the bracet and gave it a little twist. Works great;)
Note the belt in place , ready to swing around and use incase the other were to break. The hose and bracket keep you from simply installing the belt as usual.

Top hose is in. Bottom hose is out , going to my oil cooler mounted sideways over the bell housing.
I can still use a mech. fuel pump since I have Merlin blocks.

And yes that is the correct# sutphen10 gave you

Thanks man that looks like a much better way to pump water to me!!!

I know in my case (a Formula 272 with big blocks) replacing the Merc impeller was a REAL MOFO if you get my drift:rolleyes:
After a lot of question asking and research I went with this set up and it works. Best part I can kneel on the back seat , lean over the backrest and change the impeller in 15 minutes. It's almost the same a BB Volvo and theirs works;)

Looks alot like my Volvo Set-Up...

Duh, Well....I'm back in work again. Have to wait till morning again for pix:( . In a nut shell , it's the same place Merc put it. Right above the alternator on the right side by #1 cylinder. Film at 11:D :D :D

Pat,
That's why I finally went with this setup. I had talked to C Spray who has twin Volvos in his Formula. I had my doubts since the flow rating is just over 1/2 of the Merc belt driven pump. With a circulating pump I have around 9 lbs water pressure at anything over an idle. I've also heard anything past 2000 rpms the blades on the impeller just lay back , acting more like a blender and don't do much because the water is being forced in by your forward motion.

I like it!!! the old Merc set up sucks!!!now if you can figure out how to mount the starter in the front !!!

AND HOW!!!!!
Dyno , the other pix

Here's a shot of the oil cooler and plumbing. I figured you'd get to that sooner or later:D :D :D
Hope this has all been a help;)

Sure has!!thats a big a$$ cooler.....If I have a couple extra $100 when I build my 496's there on!!what impeller do they use?

My coolers are for a Merc HP500 and when you get your pump or pumps , why not get a spare or two.
I didn't and was able to match something up at Boat US. After that I ordered a few just to have them;)

Sut,
Yeah, I did pick it myself.
The magenta color on the intakes and t-stat housing is powdercoat that matches some of my upholstery and graphics. Also had the aluminum valve covers clear powdercoated so I'm not polishing all the time:cool: . The rest is just Merc Phantom Black.

Here is the pic better later than never

where???