MacDad260, DD2000 results on cams
 

I ran several cams through Desktop Dyno 2000 and it looks like the Comp Cams XM270H-12 is the one I'd pick based on the horsepower and torque numbers. This cam made 447 hp@5000 and 521ft.lbs@3500. The torque curve is very nice with 499@2000, 521@3500, and 469@5000. Let me know if you'd like all the profiles I ran. Dave

Just curious crazyhorse, when entering cam data into the dyno 2000 do you just enter the opening and closing points of the valves or do you enter a cam "file". If it is the "file", where do you get the file?

Dave

Dave. that is crazy the @ 5000 numbers are EXACTLY the same as mine on DD2000 and the others are Real close. Rag's

Rags, I think it's a conspiracy by the guys that were on the grassy knoll,,,,,
B.T., I enter the timing events. The cam files have several cams but unless you've got the catalogs right in front of you it's hard to tell what they're applications are. The actual numbers aren't as important to me as the ability to compare cams and the power/torque curves.

Crazyhorse,

Is that the Extreme Marine Cam. It might be just what I'm looking for. What are the results with the stock 502 Mag cam? I'd like to know just for comparison.

Thanks, Doug

With that kinda hp, You guys should let me build ya a small block :D Then we'll mke soooome HP :D

You can call tyler crockett. We called him for my dads 502 and he decides which one is best then has cam motion camshafts custom grind it.

Last chance for a small block build :D

yes, I think that's it. the grind number is XM 270H-12 and the part number is 11-236-4.

Crazy,

I checked the comp cams website and put in that part#. It is the Extreme Marine cam.

They have a couple and I ran both of them through DD.

I have dd 2000 as well Crazyhorse but am not real familiar with it yet. What do you use for exhaust typically? It makes a huge difference on the outcome. With my combo, when it change the exhaust from stock to small tube headers (going to KEs this winter) I get a jump of 125hp and over 100ft-lbs torque. Seems optimistic, but I like the answer. What do you think?

Dave

That does sound optimistic. Too good to be true?? Can you be trusted with that much HP, Dave :D :D

I'm assuming macDad has stock Merc manifolds so I entered small-tube headers with mufflers and compared the cams from there. Yeah, you can get some really impressive numbers by manipulating the exhaust but the process I used was to compare cams using the same factors in the other categories.

I'm with you Crazyhorse. You just isolate and change one variable and evaluate relative impact. The actual hp/torque values may not be accurate.

I'm sure I can find something to do with that extra torque/hp kidnova ;) Prolly break a bunch of chit :crazy:

Dave

What kind of particular parts was entered,such as heads, lifter ratio, intake and carb? I assume we are talking SBC. Some awesome figures you spit out there.

B.T. that's correct. I'm amazed at how close the DD numbers are as compared to actual corrected dyno results though. My own supercharged 509 (I only ran one on the dyno) was within just a couple horsepower and torque throughout the chart.
tmdog, these are all big-blocks we're looking at on this particular thread but the small-blocks I've run through the DD have looked pretty good too.

I put my new setup for my small block into the DD2000 and it spit out 571 hp at 6000 rpm and 526 lbs trq around 5000 rpm If memory serves me right.


Sorry back to big blocks.. I've been trying to drive crazyhorse nuts :D

If I put up my specs Crazyhorse would you sanity check my hp/torque results? I am getting over 500hp and 550ft-lbs of torque with my parts on dd2000 and that seems high. I've felt like I made an error somewhere, but not sure.

Let me know and I will post them.

Dave

Believe me, it's not that hard to get 500 hp out of a 454. We do it with all Federal Mogul parts, even the camshaft. Sure, post all the info and I'll run it through. be particular with cylinder head info, compression ratio, carb and intake design. Cam data needs to have all the opening and closing event timing, as well as lift withthe rockers you'll use. Don't forget exhaust.

Here it is Crazyhorse. Let me know if I missed anything.

Displacement: 468
Heads: rect port edelbrock rpm performer 2.19/1.88
Carb: 800cfm dp
Intakes: Edelbrcok rpm performer dual plane
pistons: flat tops w/ valve notches
Comp Ratio: 8:4 as calculated on dd2000
Cam: Lift 544/564 dur 226/234 @.050
valve timing @.006 IVO 28 IVC 62
EVO 74 EVC 24
Cam ground with 4*advance and installed straight up.
Cylinders were bore notched to unshroud valves.
MSD amplifier w/ tbolt IV ignition.
Keith Eickert aluminum full runner exhaust



Dave

BT that looks like 500 hp easy!

The thing he's (blue thunder) not being real specific about are the heads because the DD has several different head and head porting configurations that go into the equation. With the differing levels of head porting that are on the DD it can make a big difference on the power outcome of the engine in question. Just my .02

I'm coming up with 472@5500rpm for horsepower, peak torque of 531@3500 if the intake centerline is 107 degrees. if I advance that 4 degrees the horsepower drops to 456@5500 and torque goes up to 534@3500. let me know what your cam card says for intake centerline angle. I'd really like to see the compression ratio up around 9:1, maybe a little more than that. Also, I'm assuming this is a hydraulic flat-tappet cam.

Right you are Kaama. I didn't know which head selection would be closest to the 6055 aluminum heads. I think I was using canted rect port. Hopefully the fact I have a matched induction system (performer rpm) is of some benefit. Crazyhorse has been working on the edelbrock alum head idea, maybe he knows.

Dyno, I hope you are right... that would be a nice boost in performance year over year.

Dave

I guess we were typing at the same time crazy. The Intake CL straight up is 107* The LSA is 111. The cam is comp. CBX4 270H-11 Yes on flat tappet cam. 9:1 or better is on next winters to do list.... ;) Due to cast assemblies I am only concerned with the torque curve below about 5200rpm. My hp will be peaking over that, but I want the torque falling right at 5000rpm. What selection did you make for heads?



Dave

Crazyhorse,
Here is the flow data on those heads if you want to plug in the exact numbers to a DD .flw file.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/head_flowdata.html
Bob

Here it is, rpm, horsepower, torque;
2000 194 510
2500 249 523
3000 301 526
3500 354 531
4000 401 526
4500 442 516
5000 469 493
5500 470 449
6000 456 399
With the airflow numbers plugged in;
2000 193 507
2500 247 519
3000 298 521
3500 348 523
4000 392 515
4500 428 499
5000 445 467
5500 433 413
6000 408 357
If I were a betting man, and we were going to run the engine on the dyno, I'd probably guess that the second set would be close, but I've lost this bet with KAAMA before.

Looks like a good, flat torque curve for a marine application. What do you guys think? Torque drops off right about where I want it to as well. I'll play with the dd2000 some and see if I can get the same numbers as you crazy.

What rpm would you guys prop this boat to, I was planning for 5100-5200rpm, but maybe a little lower would be better.

Thanks for the help,

Dave

Crazyhorse,

Can someone run mine for me???

Here it is

Displacement: 502
Heads: oval port merlin's 2.19/1.88
Carb: 850cfm Holley
Intake: Holley, Single Plane Strip Dominator
pistons: Stock GM
Comp Ratio: 8:5-1 I believe
Cam (Comp Cams XS282S "Solid flat tappet"): Gross Lift 590/598, dur 282/290 @.015, dur 244/252 @ .050
valve timing @.015 IVO 35 IVC 67
EVO 79 EVC 31
Lobe separation 110*
Cam ground with 4*advance and installed straight up.
thunderbolt IV Ignition
Stainless marine exhaust

I am curious what I am making. My guess is 525 - 550??

Here is what I came up with Panther. Had to take a guess on the airflow of the heads. Used small tube headers as the exhaust. Crazyhorse can do better I'm sure. Just practicing.... Seems my numbers are low :confused:

RPM HP Torque
2000 102 267
2500 152 219
3000 193 338
3500 252 379
4000 318 417
4500 382 446
5000 426 447
5500 450 429
6000 451 395
6500 443 358

I'll be curious to see what crazyhorse gets

Dave

Here's the results I get with small-tubes/no mufflers, single-plane intake, seat-to-seat cam timing(this is a solid-lifter flat-tappet grind with .016 lash, that's why the cam timing figures are at .015 lift),rpm, hp, tq,
2000 183 481
2500 241 506
3000 300 525
3500 368 552
4000 432 567
4500 486 567*
5000 522 548
5500 530*506
6000 517 452
6500 486 393
Making the large tube/with mufflers selection;
2000 172 452
2500 228 479
3000 286 500
3500 353 529
4000 416 547
4500 470 548*
5000 506 531
5500 513*490
6000 499 437
6500 464 374
Either way it looks like a nice running motor.

I used cam specs at .050, not seat to seat. Now I see.

Dave

How did your numbers look after the change to seat-to-seat?

Still not where yours are, but improved. Probably airflow.

rpm hp tq
2000 183 481
2500 240 505
3000 297 520
3500 359 539
4000 415 545
4500 457 533
5000 475 499
5500 464 443
6000 436 382

I like this curve much better than mine.

Dave

thanks guys, I have been running this setup for some time now and it seems to be working pretty well. the only problem I see with my setup is where I have the boat propped. I am running 5100 - 5200 rpms. It appears the HP peaks at 5500, I may benefit from turning a little more RPM's. I was thinking of having my props labbed, that may get me to 5500 where my peak torque is.

thanks again, I guess I was pretty accurate with my estimates.

One other thing I did was port the intake runners on the heads and match the intake to the gasket. I don't think that would be a huge difference in power, maybe 10-15 hp??

Merc also recommended trying a set of labbed props that are one inch larger in pitch than I have now and I would turn 5300. I am running 25P mirage plus, they wanted me to try a labbed 27P mirage plus.

I just don't feel like wasting the money on new labbed props. I think I may keep everything the same after thinking this over some more.

I'd be curious if the consensus would be to prop for max torque, max hp or somewhere in between. My own unedumacated opinion is to prop half way between max torque and max hp is the best the boat will do. Comments?

Airflow makes a huge difference on the dd2000 Panther, so I am sure any port matching you did was beneficial.

Dave

Here is my experience with propping for max hp and max tq. When I first set up this boat I was running a 21P mirage plus to 5800 rpm's and 70mph. I then put on a set of 23P mirage plus and ran 73 mph and 5500 rpm. I then went to a set of 25P "Mirage", and same speed 73mph and 5300 rpm. I then went to a set of 25P Mirage plus and the boat woke up a bit to 76.5 mph on the gps in dead calm water and and 5200 rpms.

After analyzing the nubers that Crazyhorse gave to me, I think I am keeping everything as is.

I have seen deferent results on other boats.

I like the nice flat torque curve from 2000 rpms to 5500 where I have over 500 ft lbs. I am pretty happy with my selection.