Procharger Help needed
 

I am helping a friend that installed a Procharger 5lb. kit? with stock injectors. It is a 95 28ft Nordic with a 454MAG EFI. It ran ok before the install. We removed the thermostat per the instuctions and installed the new fuel pump and regulator. When we took it out for a test drive, it was burning very rich and wouldn't get on plan. My thought is that the ECU is in the cold start mode causing this. What about using a 120 thermostat to help it warm up? What is the temp. that the ECU kicks out of the cold start mode?
We were using a 28 Bravo so it may be possible we are over proped. I am looking for any help as we may need to have the ECU reprogrammed. Some issues that probably need addressed;
1. Cold start adjustment
2. MAP High limit switch
3. raise rev limit to 5400?

What do you think we should try first?
Thanks, ;)

First: What temp is the motor at? Was the ECU reprogrammed by Arizona Speed? If not, do so immediately.
What fuel pressure are you running? Normal Merc pressure? It should be higher than stock even at idle, mine is about 45-48# @ idle. Was the new regulator installed? Does the fuel pressure go up as boost is built? It should, but only by about 5# maximum.
An after market ignition can help with a longer duration spark to the plugs and allow a wider gap also.

You can use either a DRILLED 120* thermostat or a restrictor plate to get a little more heat. A little soot is normal particularly if long idle times/wake zone are encountered.

Nope on the reprogram. We called Procharger and they told us that a reprogram wasn't needed. Yea I know, their tech support !@#$. I was changing the fuel pressure up and down while moving and still didn't have enough power to get it on plan. We installed a Aeromotive A1000 and regulator and the fuel pressure went up 4-5psi. I think a t-stat and ECU reprogram is going to be needed.
I did a search and found that the cold mode kicks out at 105 degree, but the water is cold here right now and it won't warm up with out a t-stat.

Thanks for the info blown formula

Give Mark a call at precision Marine 504-469-7463. Computer expert and also does prochargers.

I also highly reccomend Mark at Precision Marine!

You need a fuel pressure gauge to set correct pressure at idle.Also i think the regulators come preset from procharger if you bought the kit new.Should have been close enough to get running correctly,also my motor has thermostat removed and yes motor is in cold start mode that is why Procharger says you don't need to get computer redone they just let it run rich.If you want to run a t-stat you will have to have computer redone call Mark as mentioned above he can get ya going.

Have friend with 2 of these kits & has a problem free last 4 years. At least for the motors, prop & drives are a different story. He does not have remaped ecm & it works perfect.

Good info guy's, thanks. I may call Mark for some more help after we do some more testing.
We did set the fuel pressure to 35,40,45 and it was running very rich at all settings.
It looks like our weather might suck this weekend. We have an electric fuel pressure gauge installed, but I will hook up my mechanical gauge for the next test. What should we start with for fuel pressure? 45-48 like Blown formula has stated.

I also have a question about the timing. We set the total timing to 30 on the muffs, because I thought that would be a good place to start. Any input on this?

I think the big issue at this point is the temperature compensation in the ecu, because you guy's probably never have this cold of water (40) to screw things up.

Thanks for all of the input! I'll keep you post on the progress.

Did you use the timing plug or install the jumper prior to setting the timing? If not, you're not advancing.

Jump the A&B Pins and set the initial timing to 6 - 8 Degrees and then remove the jumper.

I do have a remapped ECU, that is one reason I run 45-48# pressure. Merc won't tell you what it should be and Procharger doesn't really know or will not say. Yes, use a mechanical gauge to set pressure. Use a scan tool to check all parameters of the ECU, TPS, etc. Most mechanics do not know how to set those. Search for the "set TPS" thread last year for guide lines. I do not have a soot problem. Please run a EGT gauge for your own good. It is easy to burn a piston if a cylinder starts to lean out due to a plugged injector. Been there, done that. Not fun. Run a filter AFTER the fuel pump to be sure to trap contaniments in the fuel, Filter before the pump is NOT adequate.

My computer was reprogramed to shut off cold mode at 105,mercruiser manual says stock cold start shuts off at 140. I had the same problem. Reprogrammed it works great.

BLOWNBOAT, who reprogrammed your ECU for you?

Pantera24-650HP, you are right on the timing jumper, but I didn't have my manual when we were timing so we set it for max timing with the light ( probably wrong). I always just do what you said on my boat and that works, but how do you know what the total timing really is on EFI?

blown formula, now that explains why their stupid manual says to use 32psi of fuel pressure. I know how to set the TPS, but I havn't looked at it since it was running ok prior to the procharger. Where do you install an EGT and wouldn't you need one on every cylinder to really tell anything.

It starts and idles great, but when you give it the throttle it sounds like it is loading up. Maybe fuel, maybe timing or a combination of both. Next time out, we might take a smaller prop to get it on plane and then maybe we can get it to warm up and then do some testing.

28 Eliminator,
I too am familiar with the chilly water syndrom.
Why don't you run a 120 thermostat with bypass and pressure relief?
I can program all of my enrichment out but I like the benefits of cold start enrichment; especially in our cold early season waters.

I'm not sure what the Merc ECU uses, but all of my enrichment is from 35* to 100* It sure helps those early morning starts in the Spring.
Dave

Dave, I know what your talking about. We were talking about the 120 thermostat, and I think we might get one. Where do you buy them at (whipple?).
That's probably enough to get it out the the enrichment mode.

Whipple or ASM
You'll need a bypass and pressure relief. If you have the PC crossover and thermo hsg, it's easy to modify rather than buying a new one.
Dave

You can get the 120* stat at West Marine in brass. Drill 3 holes per PC manual. Arizona Speed did the ECU. Get the MEFI-3 unit if you can. AZ SPD will exchange units. The MEFI 3 is much better and allows a lot more control.

Az speed and marine programmed mine also, it works great now.

sweeeeet, Thanks guys
Hey blown formula, the manual that came with this one doesn't say anything about a thermostat and 3 holes, but I don't beleive everything I read either. I know the MEFI 3 is much better, but it's quit a bit of coin to change. I know, it's a lot of money if you blow the motor also, but it seems like there are a lot of guys using the MEFI 1 with success. Just need to get the combination right.

Drill 1/8" holes (3) equadistant apart around the stat. This allows some water flow even with the stat closed. It works! Allows a little engine heat to be built.
As far as the MEFI 1, yes you can make it work but it is MUCH easier to get into dangerous territory with it. That makes the EGT gauge mandantory. If you are in a single engine, I would still use a dual display and put probes in both exhaust manifolds. Go above 1350* and the pistons are toast!! It give a real good idea of where/when to back off.

I believe you'll still need a bypass in order to keep the exhaust adequately cooled;)

As BF stated, an EGT gauge(s) is a worth while investment.

OK, here's the latest. The weather was nice today so we took off early and hit the lake. Well to make a long story short, it's still running really rich. We did get it on plane but I could still hear it blubbering at 50. Didn't even bother pulling the plugs.
We couldn't get the temp to raise up at all, so I think we are just going to send the ECU in to get it reprogrammed. We will get a 120 degree thermostat also, so we can get the temp to raise up and keep the condensation from making things worse. Drill a couple of holes to keep the exhaust from getting to hot then see what we can we have. This is kind of fun, but my friend doesn't think so. I have been through a lot of testing and trial and tweaking with this type of stuff, but my friend likes to just hit the key and go. I told him that it will be ok once we get the bugs worked out. Just need to drink another beer and wait for the ECU to get back.
Thanks for all the help

Hey Rockie,
Hopefully I’ll have some good input for you Monday.

I’ve got mine setup with the 120* with one 1/8 hole and then runnig two 1/8 minimum ID steam relief hoses off the back of the manifold. I also am using a 3/8 ID bypass and a pressure relief. I’m also currently plumbed with the intercooler T’d in just after the sea water pump. (this may change depending on pressure)

I’ve also put a .495 ID restrictor in each hose going to the exhaust based on the following thought.
Based on extensive testing by Whipple and Teague (G.T.) it has been concluded that an approximately .700” diameter restrictor plate in place of a thermostat has proven to provide the best temperature and pressure control for blown, non thermostatically controlled applications. The two .495 ID restrictors are the equivalent to the one .700 hole.
With that in mind I’m theorizing that when the thermo is closed I will be dumping off excess pressure thru the pressure relief valve and bypass. When the thermostat opens I won’t see a big free fall in pressure due to the restriction going to the exhaust and the closing of the relief valve. This should keep pressure fluctuation to a minimum and also maintain a good working, proven pressure and flow.
Going to find out :)

Will report Monday after a run in 40* water over the weekend.

Later,
Dave
:D

Guys, a simple solution to the cold operation cycle is that procharger sells a device that gets wired into the water temperature sender that never lets the computer know the temperature is cold. I questioned the starting ease with this, but it always cold started great, even on some very cold days. I know remapping the computer and adding a thermostat is a better way, but this worked great for me, and I did not have the cost. Fyi, I have heard several people talk about running 40+ psi at idle, this was wayyyyy too much fuel for my motor. I ended up with running 33lbs. at idle and my plugs showed a slightly rich condition.(502 Mag, M-3, AN-10 fuel lines with return to the tank) My advice now is to keep it simple don't change too many things or else you won't know what the results of the changes are. I would also recommend that you go back to stock timing, it should work fine for your application. I had great luck with my procharger system and you will too.
Eric