OT - 3/4Ton Avalanche lifter noise
 

Folks. Never thought of it all that much, but on the 8.1L GM motors, should I be hearing the clickity-clack of lifter noise when the motor is cold?



Bob

I know it is very common on their smaller V8. 366 or something like it.

I've got an '04 8.1 2500 AV and I hear a little "lifter" ticking too a little right after start up. Seems common, as I have mentioned it to a couple of buddy's that have the same 8.1 Vortec in their Sub's or Silverado's and they have the same symptoms.

I just changed my oil/filter for the first time @ 4000 miles last weekend and I cut the filter open. No unusual metal particles or anything, so I'm not worried.

This topic has been discussed to death on the truck forums. I believe that GM dismisses it as "normal" and does not cause extended damage. I have heard of some people complaining and worrying about damage after warranty is up. Suggestions were to contact regional service manager....many were getting extended warranty for free. :) I'll be checking into this as well. I believe that the 6.0L has the problem the worst.

I have an early 5.3 that does it ferociously when cold.

Suposed to be piston slap.

My 2001 8.1 rattles a lot at start up also, no matter what the outside temp. It takes a little longer to go away when its real cold out. I asked the dealership about it and they said all 8.1's do it. They said it was because of the hyperutectic pistons. They have more clearance due to more expansion when they heat up. Said it doesn't cause any problems. I'm at 50k with no issues.

Thanks for the inputs. (Kinda sad these things sound like a diesel when they start cold).


Bob

I had someone stop me a few months ago and ask me when they started offering a diesel in the Avalanche. That's my only gripe with the truck.

My '99 454 does the same thing. After many, many non-satisfying trips to the dealer with no resolution whatsoever, I finally found out through a magazine article that the noise is due to excessive rod bearing clearances.

GM gave me every excuse from carbon buildup on the pistons to the wrong oil filter to piston slap to whatever else spewed from their back-peddling mouths:mad:

I put an automotive stethescope on the engine and sure enough, the noise is way down in the crank case. The noise gets less the higher up the motor you go.

According to the magazine article, (don't recall which one), GM opened the rod clearances for some reason, expansion after heat up, whatever. Just drives me nuts. They've been making 454s since what, 1969? And I've owned at least 10 over those years. Never a problem. All the sudden they have to start friggin' whit chit!!

Makes me wanna go buy a focking Ford
:mad: :mad:

Question then. Do any of the HP3 marine engines do the same?

Its kinda hard for me to believe FOR ANY REASON, and especially in 2004, that any engine makes a noise. Heck back in the late 60's best you got was a solid lifter noise at best in the HP motors. (same goes with that lame answer they give on oil usage). I think we go through about 1qt of 15w50 M1 between oil changes.

Dont care what they say, but you can't explain to me that any noise in the engine is OK. There must be some harm that comes from it.

gm guy all the way my 5.3 cranks but hate the noise think ford next time ??????

kaamacat,

I couldn't agree more with you. An engine is not supposed to tick, clunk, or bang anytime regardless of hot/cold. Not to get into a debate, but no wonder the foreign carmakers are killing the American market.....they have a superior product. When was the last time you heard of a Nissan or Toyota making a "lifter noise" at startup?

Kaamacat and Dave1972,
100% on board with both of you. It's just plain bull#$% that any modern engine makes any noise. GM has really pissed me off with this crap. Of course, this engine issue doesn't even touch on all the other crap with this truck,,,,, the brakes just plain suck too. 60k and I've been into the brakes 3 times. New rotors three times and even had to replace the rear drums this last time. Had to turn the drums at 40k. WTF!!!!???? I've never had to turn or replace a set of drums in my life. Just plain junk. Windshield wipers - of all things - had to readjust those friggin things like twice now. Air condinitioner, leakage all over the place in the rear (rear air). I could go on and on.

If a foreign car builder made a big block boat hauler, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. (no heartbeat of America here for me, just a pounding in my head)

Guess I'll get a Ford soon. Just don't want a diesel and Ford's big block is that strange V-10 thing. I dunno:(

Just my opinion but I think it is the non adjustable rocker arms. 99 454 put edelbrock aluminum heads on with adjustable valve train and the noise is gone!

Gm TSB, they say its piston slap. I own an auto repair
shop and am starting to see many with fairly high
mileage. Seems to have no affect on longevity.

I received a brand new long block with all acc for a 1994 Jeep In-line 6. It made a horrible noise and I heard if you bitc hed you could get a new engine, I hardly had to ask and the dealer had a new motor ready. That was at 68,000 miles and warranty was up at 70,000:D Had a 5.3 Subparburban and it sounded like a diesel so I traded it in for a PSD Excursion. If you can't beat them, join them.:D

Piston slap, rod clearance, lifters, whatever. It's all inexcusable!! I can't believe the junk GM is puting out.

Maybe Mitch is right, I'll have to go get a stinky, noisy diesel. At least I won't hear any noises until it finally torpedos a rod out the side!!!:mad:

Sad thing is........for the price of it, it was the same as a loaded 1ton Duramax. (but at the time we had a 1/2ton z66 and my 98 1ton dually........didnt need two truck style vehicles......and the wife wanted the Avalanche...so we went with the 3/4).

And yep......wait till the non-us makers get the bigger units out there.

But when she takes it in for rotation next week, she will also ask them to check the noise. (and document it).



Bob

Kaamacat:
I've been working on and testing 8.1's for about two years now and talking to GM engineers. The cold start noise in these engines is a piston slap noise due to the cold shape of the hypereutectic piston and the side thrust on the piston skirt caused by a longstroke motor. They have done extensive testing and evaluation and as of September 2003 all new 8.1 engines now have a full floating piston pin to eliminate the noise. This noise is not a problem other than the noise itself. Your motor will not have durability issues because of this, but it is sad that Detriot uses customers sometimes like guinea pigs, instead of correcting these issues before they introduce new motors. Your question about the HP3 engines having this noise is a good one. In boat motors the noise levels are so much higher that generaly these noises are not heard especially in 80 degree
Florida water. The HP3 motors are hand bluprinted and we are not even sure they use all stock GM parts, since they are sealed and no one except GMC and Innovation really knows whats inside them! I do know from our work and testing that the 8.1 engine is a very strong piece and it has an excellent future in trucks and boats.
Hope this puts your mind at ease.
Ray @ Raylar;)

Ray....(and others). Thanks for the inputs.

The other night on the SpeedChannel they had Carol Shelby on (with other celebs..), and Jackie Stewart checking out the new GT40.

I was thinking, now someone has done it right, because no doubt in my mind he would have taken a sledge hammer to that new version had it been anything less than perfect. (ie. someone put some thought with improvments to the car....etc).


Bob