What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

I have always ran Mobil-1 Synthetic Oil in all motors. I have 500 efi's now and I'm not sure if I should run 5-30 or 15-30?

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Between the two I would run the 15W/30. Have you ever tried race 50 by Royal Purple? Great oil.

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

I have never tried the Royal Purple but have considered that or Amsoil. For some reason I bought a couple more cases of Mobil-1 5w-30. Don't no if I should run it or not?

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Most of the prior posts that I've seen on this subject recommend the 15W-50, not the 15W-30

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

I read through a lot of the previous oil thread; Bob's oil center site and called and talked to a few major high HP engine builders along with personal experience with a few brands of synthetics and dinos. The consensus is that there is no consensus about everything but here is what I found to be generally accepted and not my personal feelings necessarily:

-Synthetics outperform dino oils no matter what the API ratings. Those are minimum standards synthetics well exceed. Synthetics in the gear case reduce particulate matter and the drives run cooler. Mercury HP gear lube has antimony to help cushion the gears in it so it's mostly a synthetic formulation with good reviews from my marina mechanics as well. I have always used Merc HP but am switching to Amsoil gear lube next change as I hear it is possibly a notch better with less metal fragments on the drain screw magnet by a friend who uses it now. He notices a difference using 80w90 MT-1/GL4 rated lower end gear case marine oil by Amsoil.

-Mobil does not recommend extended intervals past manufacturer recommendations.

-One high-end builder dosen't feel comfortable with RP because they found it does weird things when and if mixed with gas. They go with Mobil 1.

-One highend builder uses only RP along with one dealer of high end boats; the dealer does not like how Mobil 1 is hard to clean in the bilge and that being the only complaint. Amsoil claims to be superior to Mobil 1 and RP which is "Moly" based and can settle out. Third party tests and never a law suite with the superiority claims made by Amsoil. Whereas Castrol was sued by Mobil for making claims against them.

-Amsoil is the only company that has supposedly never been taken to court for making claims against all other synthetic oils for superiority as they show independent data from 3rd party sources as having a product with a recommendation for extended use BUT with a couple oil filter changes using their ultra premium filter that captures particles less than 10 microns in size and not a regular commercial filter. So now you get into high-end filters and changing them a couple times if using the oil for extended periods. They recommend regular oil change intervals in severe duty use.

-Amsoil 1:100 synthetic oil for 2 strokes ought be used more concentrated in commercial applications to as much as 1:50. But hardly no smoke and no fouling. 1:64 works best for me. In a friends outboard and my lawn equipment. A definite winner here.

Troutly turned me on to Amsoil and I like it better than RP and better I would say to Mobil-1. I like either the Amsoil 15w40 Marine or 20w50 Marine oils with added corrosion protection. I will use a filter that captures particles down to 10 microns like the Amsoil filter or the Mobil-1 filter. I will not however extend drain intervals past the manufacturers recommendations. That's just me.

So in short the industry is going to synthetics and only Amsoil is the only manufacturer promoting extended intervals past the manufacturers recommendations with certain parameters to observe with filters and type of service, especially if a turbo is involved.

My take is:

-Frequency of change is key in the marine environment no matter what anyone tells me I will use the best Oil and Filter but not extend drainage periods.

-There is a significant advantage using a "high-end oil filter"

-Synthetics outperform conventionals

-Thanks Troutly for turning me onto Amsoil I like it a lot so far as it showed me not all synthetics are the same. I like Mobil-1 a lot but Amsoil best. I order it i a large container from their website http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers.htm
very reasonable shipping using ups or fed ex ground and immediate order attention and shipping. They also just came out with a new oil for heavy working 4 strokes that is 0w40. It is actually a single weight oil but would perform in those ratings compared to a conventional oil. Great for Lawn tractors/equipment and 4 cycle snowmobiles and personal watercraft. A special formulation to reduce foaming and extra additives to keep the internals clean and the oil free flowing. So my hats off to Troutly and a few others who have used this product with great results for telling what they use in the oil thread.

Finally I know a lot of you use conventionals and regular filters with great results. Not trying to sway opinion just sharing info.

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Hi all: my first post here after joining.

RP, Redline, Amsoil are all great oils.

Interesting comments about RP (settling out, doing weird stuff when mixed with gas, extended oil change intervals). Tres turned me onto it when I was with him in 95. I owned the race and industrial RP distributorship here in St. Louis for 5 years, and worked with racers from all communities (NHRA - Pro Stock cars and bikes, roundy-round, Indy, offshore, tunnel boat, jap and harley cycles). We put together some interesting new "concoctions" directly w/ the factory that were tested by these guys. Never had any complaints/concerns about settling out, nor mixing with gas. We also advertised running extended oil change intervals, and had done extensive testing with numerous large over-the-road trucking companies (2000+ trucks). The Illinois HP was also using it on an extended drain interval (not sure if they still are). But we didn't have our own filters like Amsoil. Mobil 1, Castrol, Valvoline, etc. etc. are what we often refered to as "me-too oils"....they spend more of their money on advertising than putting it back into the quality of the product (just an opinion).

For better oils like RP, Redline, Amsoil, "viscosity, viscosity, viscosity" is not nearly as important as film strength, so lighter oils can be run (I'm not recommending ignoring the factory warranty), with the added advantage of increasing HP and reducing operating temps (a lighter oil creates less heat and dissipates it better). We ran RP41 (15w40) in inXS blower motors, and RP21 (5w30) in the aspirated race motors. The pro-stock boys and Nascar (during qualifying) were running RP9 (0w10), along with some lighter oils we made that were never "assigned" a name, and the Indy guys ran RP11 (5w20) on the Ford Cosworth turbo motors....I kinda miss those days of receiving "blind" faxes with HP number comparisons....sometimes we'd have to wait for a phone call to see who was doing what.

Also remember that the better oils will resist emulsification.

Regardless of what oil you choose, get a good oil AND air filter.

Thx...hope I don't sound like a salesman.

Steve

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Thanks for the info on RP. Thought this might be of interest for Synthetic users ;info from 3rd party tests on RP vs. Amsoil. It's obvious that not all synthetics are equal. I have heard that Amsoil, RP and Redline were "premium synthetics". After reading this info I had concerns about RP; what do you think?

http://www.performancemotoroil.com/Royal_Purple_info


http://www.performancemotoroil.com/Dyno_test

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Wow...I'd have to go back into the dregs of my memory to post a technical response to the article, but I don't have the brain cells left (I'm 40....over the hill, you know). RP always had a bulls-eye on it's back....maybe that was a compliment.

Dynomometer testing can be extremely subjective....there are a lot of variables that come into play. I'm not doubting that it outperformed RP in that instance....you need to review data over the long haul (just for the heck of it, I did a search on dyno comparisons between RP and Amsoil, and that article is showing up everywhere....they're marketing it to the hilt).

I do question though why the heck anybody would run a 20w50 in anything.

Thx....good luck with your choices, and safe boating.

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

It's the first article and the "Moly" concerns that caught my eye.
Here's another site basically quoting the same things and showing excessive wear in a test using Redline.

http://www.usasynthetic.com/page33.html

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

I never guessed I would have got so much info on this post.

I actually feel like I learned alot about synthetic oils today.

Thanks

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

FYI Murrays Autodiscount sells Amsoil 10w30 and 10w40 in my area for $ 5.99/qt.
Since as we know that "film strength" is most important in synthetics the latter number is of most concern. I have some boating friends who use Amsoil 10w40 and it works fine in their big blocks. Concerned about using lower weights in synthetics vs. heavier weights in conventionals? Think about this. The 2004 Dodge Viper V-10 500HP comes with a "factory fill" of Mobil-1 10w30. This viscosity in synthetics is popular with Benz and Porsche as well. This is stuff that has been tested and is very compatible with engine "seals". I think the myths about synthetics are diminishing and the truth is finally upon us. I never mind spending extra if I know what I am getting is a good value. I use marine engine Amsoil for the extra corrosion additives they add in there for the marine environment/ condensation issues being greater. I will say that I have used Mobil-1 15w50 and later 10w30 and never had a problem. But i read where somebody pulled an engine apart that had used it and there was sludge. So I got fussy and switched to Amsoil marine due to low volitility at high ( 200 degrees C) temps because the lower the volitility the less the chance for sludge formation due to the oil "boiling off" and concentrating into sludge. The cool thing is price wise most synthetics are within a dollar or so of each other. Now the premium filters run around $ 11 bucks each but they remove the stuff that causes lots of wear. I would say I spend about $ 42/engine using Amsoil and a Mobil-1 filter and do it myself per manufacturers drain which if I recall is every 20 hours. So for twins changed twice a season it totals $ 168.00. WIth conventionals it would be $ 60.00.
SO it costs me $100.00/ season more to do it my way.

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Zachsam,
Why don't you recommend anyone using 20w50??
My RP rep highly recommend running Racing 51 which is designed for drag racing, marine and truck pulling. It has a viscosity typical of a 20w50 oil.

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

My opinion is that a user doesn't require such a heavy oil to provide protection, especially with an oil that provides high film strength. RP didn't offer a racing 20w50 when I had my distributorship (not that I would have sold it). I kept very, very little 20w50 in stock. In all the training that I had received during my trips to the factory in Humble Texas, and with working with the tech guys (David Canitz , Mike Crosby, Jody Williams) as well as quite a few of the other more knowledgeable distributors, we always advocated lower viscosity for higher hp and better cooling, without sacrificing protection. Although 20w50 was recommended for my little brothers flat 6 (911), which relies on an extreme amount of oil to handle both cooling and lubrication, he has been running RP41 (15w40) for many years now without incident (lots of trips to LOTO from St. Louis). But that's just one data point, which doesn't really mean diddly.

Maybe I've been away too long and I need to be re-edumacated.....

My understanding is that road racer Paul Gentillozi pushed them to develop RP51, but I honestly haven't kept up with it the tech side of it.

If you trust your rep, use his recommendation....one question - is 20w50 one of the viscosity's recommended by your engine manufacturer????

Thx,

Steve

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Active Mike:

Let me back step slightly.....my comment about 20w50 was made in the context of your aspirated motors, and it's my opinion only.....there are indeed instances where a heavier oil was offered by RP (for instance, Top Fuel cars....I can't recall the weight, but I think it was something like 70). My original comment was done in haste.

Thx,

Steve

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

What do you guys feel about using a good diesel oil... 15w40... They have the same good additives that these big blocks need... Good anti-foam, great with heat....

Any one dare to answer?

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Now your making my head hurt trying to think back to my oil "daze". I'm sure just 'bout every manufacturer, including RP, will tell you that oils are formulated for specific applications, with certain additive compositions that enhance it's ability to perform in that application. Would I personally be afraid to use a diesel oil in a non-diesel app....no, but that's only my opinion, and it's really not providing a technical response to your tech oriented question, so I'm admitting that I'm pretty much wussing out and just killing some time here.

Steve

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Well, on the bottle is says its is also good for gas engines... LOL.... I have no clue...

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

What is NMU?

I mixed a lot of strange concoctions up on my personal vehicles just to see what happened....I probably had the only Legend and Z running around with a modified version of RP9 (0w10) in both the engine and tranny. Never caused any problems, but it clattered like a diesel and affected my vacuum.

Steve

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Northern michigan university....... Its a long story on the name... While i was there we had 2 years of record snow fall...You had to recognize houses by thier rooflines....


I think Im going to stick with mercs 25w40......

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

According to Larry Watson, consumer affairs manager for Mercury Marine, 10 years ago MerCruiser recommended single-grade 30W or 40W SF-rated oil. Today, the recommended oil for use in all MerCruisers is Quicksilver 25W40 CD or CF certified multigrade oil (Quicksilver part number 92-832112A12). The use of other brands with the same certified viscosity and service ratings are probably satisfactory. Synthetic oils are excellent products and well-accepted in automotive use with no adverse effects, however, they have not been "qualified" by MerCruiser for use at this time. Wonder why?

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Anybody want two cases of Mobil 1 5-30?

I don't think I'm going to chance it.

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Here goes.

First we'll talk about conventional multi-vis oils. A straight 40wt conventional oil is pretty much 40wt stock. Simple enough. A 10w-40 conventional oil is NOT a mix of 10wt stock and 40wt stock. Listen closely: it is essentially 10wt stock with a boatload of viscosity enhancers in it. These are long strands of hydrocarbon molecules that "get in the way" of the 10wt stock flowing out of wherever it is. While this sounds scary, it works very very well.

BUT

The long molecules eventually get torn apart over time, leaving the oil thinner than desired. Some applications are easier than others on the long molecules. One application worth noting is a motorcycle, which shares its gearcase and wet clutch lube with its engine lube ('cept Harleys, so don't get in a wad over it). A bike transmission will shred the viscosity enhancers MUCH QUICKER than just about any other application. For this reason, a bike's change interval is more important than a station wagon.

Now, in a big block Chevy, whether it is in a blower boat or a grocery getter, there is no thrashing gearbox to shred the molecules, and no wet clutch to contaminate the lube, so it's not nearly as big of a concern. Theory says, though that it is a noteworthy concern regardless of whether your application is severe or not.

So with conventional multi vis oils, the "narrower" the winter and summer ratings (10w-40 is "10 winter, 40 summer"), the "purer" and more stable the oil will prove to hold its viscosity over time. A 15w-40 is "better" than a 10w-40. Merc's 20w-40 is even better yet.

Synthetic lubes DO use the same practices of using viscosity enhancers where needed, BUT in the case of a syn lube, the high number is a hot equivalent, and the low (Winter) number is a cold equivalent. In many instances (10w-40 syn) there is essentially ONLY 40wt equivalent syn stock with almost no viscosity enhancers at all. This is good stuff. It is possible because synthetics are DRAMATICALLY more "pourable" at low temps. Since the rating system is based on dino oils, the syn oils are all "equivalents" and not actuals. Modern 0w-30 syns DO use enhancers.

Another thing worth noting, is that commercial fleet oils are indeed a stouter and "better" choice. Specifically the conventional Rotella and it's Delo cousins are favorites of over the road fleet operators. As far as it being a "diesel" oil, feel free to check the extensive ratings stamps on the bottle (or jug as it is with that stuff). The API and other certifications will show you that of course it is suitable to run in a gas motor. Many of the consumer oils are processed by using clay in the refining process. This leads to a substantial amount of paraffin left in suspension in the lube. This is a Group 1 oil stock. Rotella and other fleet oils use a different method of refining and will practically eliminate the waxy buildup you find in a high mile motor (especially in the seals and under the valve covers). It;s mostly Group 2 stocks.

Synthetic Blends and many "synthetic" oils use a high grade of conventional stocks called Group 3. The refining method of obtaining these stocks is called "hydrocracking" and delivers a very nice oil stock that more or less performs halfway between Group 1 and Full Syn oils. These are nice oils too, but are not true synthetics. Be aware that Mobil 1 is now formulated in some Group 3 stocks ever since Mobil lost its lawsuit over other mfrs claiming that their Group 3's were full synthetics (can't beat em join em). Red cap Mobil 1 is still full synth.

BUT the Rotella is in many cases a better choice for boat oil (and motorcycle oil). It comes in 15w-40 and is chocked FULL of all the good stuff and the additive and detergent packages are far far superior than what we get in our bottle of consumer oil.

If you want to go all out: RP, Amsoil, Mobil 1 motorcycle oil, Delo synthetic, and Rotella synthetic are all mega oils. Can't go wrong.

As far as viscosity? This was the original question if I recall...

I see no need to run 50wt anything in a motor built to run clearances based on 40wt oil. If you PLAN to build a 50wt motor, and set it up from the ground up for 50wt then fine - otherwise I feel it's a waste. Waste of fuel and horsepower. Size your bearings, lifters, etc. - set your clearances, and such for the hp and temps and then run the correct viscosity. That's my thoughts.

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Very well said, especially that last paragragh.

Hydrocracking....paraffin.....long molecules.....viscosity enhancers....haven't used those terms for many years now....it's all starting to come back, and I don't want it too.....brain not big enough to contain it all!!!

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Agreed Phd

"If you want to go all out: RP, Amsoil, Mobil 1 motorcycle oil, Delo synthetic, and Rotella synthetic are all mega oils. Can't go wrong. "

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Toilet PhD: What do you think of "blue" cap Mobil-1?

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Blue Cap Mobil 1 is great for cars. I'd lean towards green cap for a boat. I'm honestly not sure anymore WHICH of the M1 products are Group 3 stocks instead of G4/PAO (true synthetics). I DO know the M1 motorcycle oils are TRUE PAO SYNTHETICS.

G3 Petro oils are good stuff, though, don't be afraid of them.

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

I was talking to an engine builder yesterday and he mentioned he uses 40 or 50 weight Valvoline Racing oil because the oil thins after a hard run and would loose to much oil pressure when it drops to idle speed.
Some of this makes sence until the choice of Valvoline. But I'm still wondering if the Mobil 1 5-30 is to thin for my 500 efi's?

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

Zachsam,
I was just wondering what your thoughts was on the RP race 51 oil. Seeing if my rep was on your same page.
Thanks for your in put.
Mike

Re: What weight oil for 500 efi's?
 

I'm going to try Amsoil 20-40 for the first time. The Mobil 1 will stay on the shelf.