Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

Just put on a brand new stater last July. If it started the boat 25 times that would be ob the high side. Well it just went out again! I went out of the way and bought a brand new one, not a re-maunfactured one. Has anyone else had trouble with these new high torque starters???

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

What Happened? What type of motor are you running?

Did the starter motor burn out? Did the solenoid quit? Did the gear self destruct?

We need more details!

-Larry

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

Well I ran the boat the 1st time this year on Friday for about 1 hr. Boat started no problem. Went to go out today and another story. Hit the key the started engaged and made a god awful noise. Sounded like the motor let go. Than just a clicking like the battery was dead.Made a couple phone call and was told it sounded like the starter let go. I pulled it at the dock and while it was still wired up and hit the key and she did spin and the gear kicked out. So I put it back on and the only thing it would do is make the clicking noise. But just didn't have enough power to turn the motor. I'm running a 454 mag. I've never had a problem like this before with starters.

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

O.K I just went out and with the starter out jumped it with some battery cables. She seems to work fine. Could it be the solenoid on the engine that would cause it not to turn over???

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

could be your risers are leaking and your compressing water not gas!!!!pull the plugs and roll it over to make sure they arent leaking!!!

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

When I put a high torque in I found the bolts were too long because the housing was thinner. I had to shim it, it dropped too low. That sounds like your deal, the bendix is moving out but not hitting the flywheel, or just kissing it. look at that first.

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

I went the cheap route and bought an automotive starter 2 seasons back. I couldn't start my motor at the beginning of this season so I pulled the starter and brought it to autozone where they had a bench set up to test it and it worked fine on the bench but when I bolted it back up it failed again. They will appear to spin up normally when there is no load on them. My starter sits about 8 inches above the waterline inside my bilge and I can imagine it gets soaked the way I drive.

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

I hate to even say it, but when this happened to me it was because my bearings were shot. The starter didn't have enough torque to turn over a seized up motor. Try to turn the engine by hand - if it's REALLY hard, you may have the same problem...

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

Well I may have solved the mystery. We ran the boat Sunday and while coming into the ramp had one hell of a storm roll in and took on a lot of water. Sump kept things in check but everything was soaked ! Well I decided to pull the back two plugs and found they were wet with water! seems we must have taken in some water through the above water exhaust when we shut it down on Sunday. So Monday when we tried to start it , locked up the motor. I pulled all 8 plugs but was still not able to get the starter to roll the engine over. Tried to manully turn it over but all I had with me was a small 3/8 drive ratchet and just couldn't seem to budge the big block. I'll take a large breaker bar back tomorrow and see If I can't break her free. The guy at the marina said he see's this all this time and that the motor should be fine. But did state the starter still may be shot due to the motor locking up. Needless to say I won't get much sleep tonight worry about wheather I'm in for a $300 starter of $5,000 re-power bill. Anyone else had this problem??

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

Not to this extreme but water thru a riser gasket milked the oil and took out a cam lobe. You would have had to have water very deep to get in, it almost has to go thru the carb. Could be a riser gasket, head gasket or any number of palces a crack can form. How does the oil look.

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

Oil looks fine. I noticed the flappers inside the tips are gone, so my guess is the water came from that point.

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

make sure you check the riser gaskets it cost me $$$6k

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

Risers are coming off tonight and all will be replaced pending the findings are good. For a change it would be nice to get that call that says "Hey I've got good new's". But for some reason with boating that phrase never comes up! It will probably be the norm! Hope your sitting down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

Hi. I work for Mitsubishi and we make more starters than anybody. My best suggestion is to upgrade to a small body late model starter. If you get a staggered bolt mount from a late model Chevy truck, you'd be all set. The solenoids are tough as nails, heat has no effect, and they are permanent magnet so they only draw 1/2 the power and make twice torque than the old starters. They may not be "explosion" proof, but if you do not have any fuel leaks you should be OK. 350, 454, 502 all same. Even fit straight 6.

Just my $0.02 on starters.

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

This really is the way to go but I have found that some actually need to be filed down (as opposed to shimming) in order to engage the flywheel with the correct clearance. After I did that it lasted longer than the engine :D:D

Roby

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

I just went through this whole starter escapade the past two weeks. Started out with the new style "Mini High Torque" design with really bad results. The supplied bolts were bottoming out in the engine block holes. Didn't really notice it as the starter was sitting flat against the block mounting pad when installed. First time you hit the key and the gears engage, the starter drove itself down on to the bolt knurls. This in turn created a poor gear mesh and took out the ring gear. This was discovered when I installed a new ring gear. We did some analytical troubleshooting to figure out what was going on. There were no instructions with the mini starter I purchased.
Not wanting to go through the same crap again I started to do my research on a better starter design. I looked at Tiltons, CVR and Powermaster. These are used in high compression engines and have a much better construction as compared the mini high torque crap with the staggered bolt pattern. The Tilton, CVR and Powermaster racing starters have a straight bolt mounting. Much stronger as it creates a more solid mount closer to the flywheel.
I went with a CVR PowerTorque (1.9 hp and 260 ft/lbs torque with a 4.4:1 gear reduction).
The racing starters come with instructions as how to install with shims (if needed) to create the correct amount of gear lash (clearance) when the teeth are engaged. You have to remove your engine to due this so out came the engine one more time. Turns out I had to put in .045" of shim to get the .040"-.050" of clearance that was recommended by the manufacturer. I measured this with a wire gauge.
I called CVR to confirm the installation procedure they sent me. Well worth my time.
The best thing about the CVR starters are that they rotate 360 degrees. This was a great feature with my setup.

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

"They may not be "explosion" proof, but if you do not have any fuel leaks you should be OK. 350, 454, 502 all same. Even fit straight 6.
Just my $0.02 on starters."

One more thing.
Go with a Marine SAE J1171 approved starter.
That's my $822.00 on marine starters

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

CVR is an anodized Denso starter. Tilton uses Hitachi. These companies just make their own aluminum nose cones. The OEM's make the key parts (motor and solenoid). The Denso's (CVR's) are sealed with O-rings, which make them pretty nice. The staggered mount bolt pattern is used for larger diameter flywheels and the inline bolt pattern used for smaller diameter flywheels. The staggered is actually a stronger mount, as it supports the overhanging weight of the starter motor better than two inline bolts further away. The CVR should be an excellent unit, as mentioned. Lightweight, powerful, and draws low current. No heat soaking. Nice.

Clint

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

Clint,
Thanks for the in depth information on starters.
I am curious as to why all the "real" high torque starters use the straight across bolt pattern. Not challenging your knowledge but the tech guy from PowerMaster said that the staggered bolt mount was GM's "blackeye" when it came to starter design.
Russ

Re: Another starter gone bad!!!!
 

Hi thanks. It takes a lot less aluminum to make the mounting holes inline. If they are staggered, they need a large square pad of aluminum to drill the holes staggered. If they do two sets of inline holes, it will mount correctly to small and large flywheel diameters. Have fun!

Clint