Programmable ECU's for HP 500 EFI's?
 

Got a stupid question for you gearheads,
does anyone make a programmable ECU for the HP 500 EFI? I know Merc sets 'em up to run rich, but my oil analysis came back with "fuel dilution" and it was so bad that it took the oil out of specified grade after only 18 engine hours(and no, I didn't idle a whole lot) my oil had 5.5% fuel in it!!! and this was consistently the same in both engines. Someone told me to use extended tip spark plugs for better ignition, but I don't think this will totally cure the problem. I also contacted Tyler Crockett, and he quoted me $250 a piece to reprogram my existing ECU's. Found these on the Summit Racing site: Crane # 6000-6462 for $292 , they're supposedly for marine use, any opinions?
http://www.cranecams.com/ignition/hi6m.htm
Merry Christmas!!!
Paul

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: boathead ]

Paul, talk to Dustin Whipple about this. He has done a lot of research about the 500EFI and it's computer.
Eric

I talked to Dustin a few monthe back. And he recomended Jim, at Arizona Speed and Marine.
He probably has the most experience with reprograming. ;)

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: Kanookstr ]

Hey boathead,
Something doesnt sound right. If both engines are doing it and the cause is Merc's programing, I would think we would be seeing some major failures out there. Has anyone else experienced this problem, fuel in the oil?? I would think that that the fuel curve would have to be way rich to contaminate the oil. Do you see black transom? And are the plugs reading rich? To swap out your ECU's your are talking some hefty money. I am not sure what you are refering to with the Crane part #'s, but ECU's are much more than that. Have you talked to anyone else about the contamination? Like Dustin or Arizona Speed? I would look a bit further for the cause before finding the cure. Not to say that it isnt happening, but I dont believe the cause is from the fuel curve, we would have heard more about this from other owners. Unless you have tripped across a deep dark secrect of Merc's..
How many times did you have the oil tested? Are they reliable? Any past experience with them?..
Good luck with this one. It may take a bit to figure out what is actually happening. Keep us posted and we'll try to help you work thru the problem..

Dick

Dick,
I've heard this is happening a lot with the HP 500 EFI's, I've been in contact with Dustin, just sent him some more info on operating conditions, boat size, etc. He's first rate in my book, if I ever decide to supercharge, I know who I'll call :D ! Boyd Dillon(Cardshark388 on OSO) has the same problem with soot on the transom, although he is trying the extended tip spark plugs to see if they help, but Dustin told me that they won't help except in high altitude conditions and they may cause detonation, he said I could try one heat range hotter plugs, but that the real problem is those ECU's. I also contacted Tyler Crockett and he quoted me $250 a piece to reprogram them . One of the guys at the Smoke On The Water poker run recommended Tyler, said after he redid his ECU's, the transom soot and plug fouling was cured. I don't want to run another season like this!! This was the first oil analysis on these engines, but I have used Oil Analyzers for my Cummins and am satisfied with their work. I think this problem is more widespread than we realize, it's just that people don't think about it until they have an oil analysis done.

What octane fuel are you using? I used 93 in mine to 'baby' it for the first couple fill-ups. Not a good idea. My transom was as black as night. I switched to 87 octane from a reliable gas station, and I have had no problems. The HP500EFI runs cooler, MUCH less soot on the transom, and it's CHEAPER. My mechanic even recommends (reliable, not el cheapo), 87 octane for my '99 HP.

Brian

HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS WITH MY 2001 500 EFI. MARK BOOS AT PRECISION MARINE IN NEW ORLEANS FIXED THEM BT REPROGRAMING MY ECMS. PHONE IS 504-469-7463. MIGHT EVEN PICK UP A COUPLE OF MILES HR. :eek:

HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS WITH MY 2001 500 EFI. MARK BOOS AT PRECISION MARINE IN NEW ORLEANS FIXED THEM BT REPROGRAMING MY ECMS. PHONE IS 504-469-7463. MIGHT EVEN PICK UP A COUPLE OF MILES HR. :eek:

Well that brought out some good comments!! Looks like it is a common problem.. I would say that Merc screwed up.. you are on the right track then.. I hadnt heard of all this trouble with the 500EFI.
I would think that reprograming would be a much cheaper way to go, rather than new ECU's.
good luck!!

Dick

Dick,
From what I've heard, they did it to play it safe, they'd rather have a rich rather than a lean condition, I guess a little fuel in the oil and transom soot is better than overheating the block. I'll bet that in certain applications, the ECU's probably work just fine ex: heavier boats like a fountain Sport Cruiser o something. I notice even more soot when I run 89 octane!
Happy Holidays,
Paul

I'M ANOTHER 500 EFI OWNER WITH THE SAME PROBLEM. I CURED ABOUT 95% OF THE TRANSOM SOOTING PROBLEM WITH THE ADDTION OF MSD #6 BOXES AND EXTENDED TIP BOSCH PLATINUM PLUGS. THIS HOWEVER DID NOT CURE THE OIL DILUTION PROBLEM, BUT DID IMPROVE IT A LIITLE. MERC HAS MAPPING ON THESE ECU'S SET VERY RICH.

ANYONE HAD PERSONAL EXPERIANCE WITH CROCKETT ON REPROGRAMED ECU'S/ DID IT CURE OIL DILUTION PROBLEM? I'M CHANGING OIL @ 20 HOURS AND IT LOOKS BAD.

Wow! That's kind of pathetic.. dump enough fuel in to dilute the oil just to play it safe.. Seems like a carb would be better in that case.
How about it, anyone having good luck with a reprogram?? Curious minds want to know!!

Dick

Is it possible to buy the software to reprogram your own ECM? That seems the way to go.

Hey, has anyone contacted mercruiser about this, they may reprogram your ecu's for nothing or replace them,call mercruiser at 405-245-8794, sorry no toll free #'s even for dealers a few months back or merc high perf 2 920-924-2088, good luck, Marc

Judging from the replies on this thread, it looks to me like everyone with the HP 500 EFI's should do oil analysis on a regular basis, I know I am! I think it may be time to contact Merc, this is not only hard on the engine, it's dangerous with that much fuel in the oil. I think I'm going to contact them ASAP! I'll post any results.
Paul

Where do you get the fuel tested? I have smelled fuel in my oil for a long time I do change it before every race (3 to 4 hours).

Eddie Simmons
Superboatusa.com

With the fuel diluting the oil issue- All the more reason to run synthetic oil. Fuel has NO lubricating properties. Save your engines. Use synthetic oil.
Everyone is blaming the ECU programming. Has any one (I'm sure Dustin and Crocket have) dynoed these motors and checked the A/F ratios and verified that they run rich? It would be nice to see a dyno sheet with rpm,hp,tq,A/F,bsfc.
Could this be a ring sealing problem and not ECU?

Just a a thought, My 2001 500efi, sooted really bad for first 50hrs, after that it reduced by around 80%. I am at 105hrs and soots very little and I have never reprogrammed a thing. I was told it is normal for them to soot, while breaking in.

;)

Cobra Marty,

We've dyno tested them, they're lean on the dyno under swept test and their usually around 12.2-12.5:1 in the boat.

Thanks,
Dustin

Fastedy,
I use Oil Analyzers, they're part of Amsoil, : $12 a piece dealer cost.
PdMA is another source, they give you two free tests as an introductory deal!http://www.pdma.com/oil.html.
I think this is cheap insurance for boat engines, I would have never caught this problem if not for the oil analysis.
Paul

Thanks guys, I'll get right on it.
This thread should be on the main page, I can't seem to find it except on this thread.

Eddie Simmons
Superboatusa.com

fastedy,
I did post it on the general discussion board also, because I want everyone to be aware of the problem, maybe if enough of us let Merc know, they'll do something about it, they are kinda famous for blowing people off, however...must be the monopoly thing ! Maybe we can apply some pier pressure!

Mark B. at Precision Marine in Kenner, LA. is the man to talk to about your ECU. You can expect to see some mph from the changes too. I saw 4mph gain in a boat with twin's.

504-469-7463 Tell him Dave from G.C.O. sent you.

Dave

Only problem is you gotta wait till next year. :D 2002

I have 2000 500efi's and see the soot on the swim platform, especially after poker runs. Confirms my thoughts on Moblie 1 and 20 hour oil changes!!!

So let me get this straight, we have the most powerful and reliable OEM fuel injected V8 motors available on the planet earth and your complaining because they run rich.

wow.

The primary reason they run rich is due to the lack of an O2 sensor, which, while possible is not necessarily practical.

Tell you what, take the EFI intake and ECU, put it in a box, and send it to me. Then I will send you the Holley carburetor of your choice. I will even pay shipping if you send them ground. :)

yeah, with 5 1/2 percent fuel in the oil, I'm complaining, real good for bearings!!!

I noticed that my ring gaps were aligned on all but two pistons when I tore down my HP500EFI. This would certainly allow for blow-by. From what I understand this is fairly typical on these engines.

BTW, I did not experience fuel in the oil, a rich condition, nor oil consumption. I run Mobile 1 15-50. I decided to freshen the motor before adding a blower.

Hey boathead,
I am really surprised about the response to your post.. I guess you hit on something. Sounds like a good idea to do the fuel analysis. If everyone has the same situation, then Merc better step up to the plate before everyone finds their bearings worn excessively.
Now I am wondering about my EFI. Like Dustin says you need a wideband O2 sensor to see actual fuel ratio. So can anyone explain the fuel curve to soot ratio? I have seen some soot, but expected rich mixture at idle where big injectors have a hard time being controlled. But if the fuel curve is rich in the middle or top, then when is the soot being produced.. Has anyone done steady state drive by tests and read their plugs to see where the curve is rich? Lot of work, to see what Merc has given in the package.
Dustin, where would you want to see the A/F at the different rpms for a naturally aspriated motor? I would assume at idle to say 2500 it might like 14.7/1? and above that start to richen it up? What have you found in all your testing? You have the advantage with all the high dollar test equipment.. Man I would love to have your job!! Do you have any openings in the R&D dept?

Dick

Boathead, I would listen to Tyler, He knows these engines through and through. He works with racers all the time. I think the best cure would be to remove the engines and put them on a dyno then tune from there. $$

I think for 250.00 / ecu this is a deal. Tyler should have the programming down to where you shouldnt need a second programming to get it right.

By the way how much gas in the oil is too much? I have no idea. All I know my old engines that were supercharged and carbed would have 9-12 quarts of oil/gas mix when I went to change oil after only a few short runs. This is like 40% fuel content. This was the main reason I went back to fuel injection. My point is after I tore the engines down I didn't see any bad signs, bearings were good ect. Also everything was clean as a whistle too ;) Is the 5.5% you are seeing within "tolerances" of good engine running? Just a thought.

[ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: Raypanic ]

Ray,
The main thing that alarmed me was that the oil was not within it's specified(20w50 Amsoil high perf.)grade after only 18 hrs of running time(mostly at cruising speed 3300-4000 rpm). As I am not a true gearhead, I just want 'em to run reliably and am not interested in top speed all that much, I'll let you guys make all the gas stops :D, and besides, if you go fast all the time, it spills the beer all over the place. I'm thinking I'll just talk to Dustin or Tyler and have 'em reprogrammed .

Happy New Year, Paul

Also have HP500EFI w/110 hrs. Had some soot until about 30 hrs. Since then its been ok. Don't baby these engines when you break them in. I also change my oil every 25 hrs. and it looks nasty. Never had it checked though.

Tim

Also have HP500EFI w/110 hrs. Had some soot until about 30 hrs. Since then its been ok. Don't baby these engines when you break them in. I also change my oil every 25 hrs. and it looks nasty. Never had it checked though.

Tim

Also have HP500EFI w/110 hrs. Had some soot until about 30 hrs. Since then its been ok. Don't baby these engines when you break them in. I also change my oil every 25 hrs. and it looks nasty. Never had it checked though.

Tim

pulling ECU's and sending 'em to Tyler, today.

boathead,
Keep us posted on how things work out!!

Dick