Go Back  Offshoreonly.com > Technical > General Q & A
Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures >

Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

Notices

Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

Old 09-16-2004, 08:28 PM
  #11  
bob
Charter Member #40
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 1,253
Received 104 Likes on 51 Posts
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

As far as cam walk goes I have Jesel setups with very little play. We set the distributor gear clearance with gear pattern marker and also meassure. I don't think Crower uses the same process to attach the steel gear? But if it must break, at the rear is the place to break
bob is offline  
Old 09-16-2004, 10:28 PM
  #12  
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
mcollinstn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: tn
Posts: 5,752
Received 133 Likes on 82 Posts
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

Oil pump is causing the problem.

Yes, if you guys have cam walk, then that will bind up the pump/distributor, but if you have properly shimmed end stops on the cam then it is oil pump drag.

Can't see harmonics causing a problem THERE. It would more likely be breaking between 3,4,5,or 6 if it's harmonics.

What does the distributor gear look like right after the cam breaks? Does it show odd wear marks? Offcenter wear marks?

You guys running really high oil pressure? 50 weight oil in a motor with tight bearing clearances?

it's odd, that's for sure.

mc
mcollinstn is offline  
Old 09-17-2004, 02:20 AM
  #13  
Rob
VIP Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Strip Poker 388's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ms
Posts: 21,632
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

Originally Posted by mcollinstn
Oil pump is causing the problem.

Yes, if you guys have cam walk, then that will bind up the pump/distributor, but if you have properly shimmed end stops on the cam then it is oil pump drag.

Can't see harmonics causing a problem THERE. It would more likely be breaking between 3,4,5,or 6 if it's harmonics.

What does the distributor gear look like right after the cam breaks? Does it show odd wear marks? Offcenter wear marks?

You guys running really high oil pressure? 50 weight oil in a motor with tight bearing clearances?

it's odd, that's for sure.

mc


I second the oil pump ,like the oil pressure.

I have had a distributor stud break and push out the distributor of the motor revved it when it was cold. Cheap stud also.the Rockwell was high like they heat treated to much to get the strength up.
__________________
.

The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
Strip Poker 388 is offline  
Old 09-17-2004, 04:00 AM
  #14  
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fairport,NY
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

35/25--The OSO guys are really sharp. You,ve got a lot of good advice in the above posts. You mentioned that the Crane cam was "slightly larger". You didn't say anything about checking for coil binding.I'd check them all, you might have a marginal situation setting up some harmonics that ultimately cause the cam to break. Sounds like Crane might have designed the cam to be necked down at that area to keep from destroying the engine if it failed. It may be a combination of things that cause the problem. All the points made above are excellent. One things for sure, two identical failures in one engine wasn't due to "chance" as the statiticians say. Either Crane has a problem with the billets/heat treating or somethings at play in that motor.
Lmarth is offline  
Old 09-17-2004, 06:59 AM
  #15  
bob
Charter Member #40
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 1,253
Received 104 Likes on 51 Posts
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

I have KE crank/belt driven external pumps.
bob is offline  
Old 09-17-2004, 09:46 AM
  #16  
35/25
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

mcollinstn,
when the motors were first rebuilt, the shop suggested a standard volume oil pump. This appears to be consistent with current thinking by many engine guys, that the HV pumps are not necessary. So we used a standard pump. As I mentioned in the first post, the rebuild included new: camshaft, roller lifters, valves, retainers, springs, timing set, as well as new rings, bearings, cam bearings, etc... With the standard pump, oil pressure (using Valvoline 20-50 Racing oil) would be 45 to 50 lbs once the oil was hot (usually no more than 200 degrees, and most of the time 180 to 190). The cam broke after 60 hours. The cam bearings, distributor gear and everything else (valve spring too) looked OK. So we figured it was just a rare case of a defective camshaft. I then installed a new cam and switched to a HV oil pump, as I believe the original pump from Merc was a HV type. With the HV pump, oil pressure was now 50 to 60 lbs (about like it was with the original pump before the first rebuild). The second cam broke after 75 hours.
I expect to have the motor out this weekend and get a close look at everything next week.

Lmarth,
The 168731 cam is 226/236 dur @ 050, 587/610 lift, the HP500 cam I believe was 222/229, 579/598 lift. Also, the new springs (Comp 929's) were set up for the new cam and are quite a bit away from coil bind. But, as I said, we will be looking at everything next week.

Thanks guys.
 
Old 07-18-2005, 08:52 PM
  #17  
Registered
Platinum Member
 
Hang Time 27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

Ok, any updates on the broken cams issue. Looks like it's just crane cams??? I just broke a Crane 741 after 65 hrs in a merlin 540. It's a B.S. failure to me.................can't find a reason for it.......can it be that only people installing crane cams are setting them up wrong???.

35/25, what did you come up with??
Hang Time 27 is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 10:00 AM
  #18  
35/25
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

I am hoping I got to the bottom of the unexplained camshaft failures in one of my HP500's with #168731 Crane. I broke two cams in the same motor, one at about 60 hours the other at 70 hours. Each time the cams broke just in front of the distributor gear where the shaft is turned down to a smaller diameter. All along, the other motor that had been rebuilt at the same time with same Crane 168731 was experiencing no problems after 130 hours (and even now with 175 hours).
What I found out from the head Crane tech guy was that they use one of two types of hardening processes when manufacturing the camshafts. The old tried and true method, they call "carborizing" or the more recent alternate method called "induction hardening". The tech admitted that they had been getting reports of unexplained camshaft failures like mine and all of the failed cams were the induction hardened versions. They had not figured out why this was happening. The way you can identify the carborized vs the induction hardened cams is by color: the carborized cams are copper colored in between the lobes whereas the induction hardened cams are black. Crane advised me to use the copper-colored, carborized camshafts. (BTW, Crane warrantied the broken cams both times but it still cost me a bunch to change the cams). It then dawned on me that I remembered getting two different colored cams when I bought the parts from Jeg's and/or Summitt to rebuild both motors. My wife remembers it also because she noticed that one of the cams was a bright copper color when we opened the boxes. I then noticed that the original hyd roller cams (that are made by Crane) I removed from my HP 500's were copper colored. This hopefully explains why my other motor is still running fine after 175 hours, because it has the copper cam.

This all came about last summer, so I don't know if Crane has since discontinued the induction hardened process. I do suggest that if you order a new Crane Hydraulic roller cam from a supplier, you should ask them to open the box before they ship it to you to see what color it is. Funny as that sounds, it's apparently the key to longevity.

Good luck.
 
Old 07-19-2005, 01:56 PM
  #19  
Registered
Platinum Member
 
Hang Time 27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

That's great info, thanks. My cam was purchased last September. Your answer gives me hope in getting another cam from Crane. I do my own work, so if a new cam, (I'll do a new chain and lifters for good measure) is all I have to replace, I will be in good shape. I want another 150 hours out of this motor before I tear it ALL apart...............

Did you find any pieces of cam in the motor, or was it a fairly clean break? Did your builder do a complete tear down, or just replace cam, etc.??
Hang Time 27 is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 04:21 PM
  #20  
35/25
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures

You should be able to get the cam warrantied through the supplier (I had purchased mine from Summitt) or directly from Crane. To expedite getting a new cam you may have to buy the new one, then get a refund check a week or two later once the broken cam is received by supplier or Crane.

The breaks in my cams were very clean. The first time it broke I pulled the motor, put it on the engine stand and simply replaced the camshaft. Of course I looked in the pan and lifter valley, etc for metal and other obvious signs, but all looked perfect. The second time it broke everything looked good again, but I was spooked and people started suggesting that something weird was going on with harmonics or vibrations and so on, so we completely disassembled the motor and had the entire rotating assembly checked for balance. Of course we could find nothing wrong with anything. After doing all of that, Crane finally admitted to me that they were getting reports from others of the same mysterious breakage. If they had told me that the first time I called them I would never have gone through all that unneccesary work and expense. They didn't reimburse for that or my time. If I had relied entirely on a marine repair shop to troubleshoot and fix it both times as most owners would, I can only imagine the cost, probably a few thousand each time at least.

I am curious if you have verified which color cam you have in your motor, black or copper? My bet would be you have a black one. Both of the cams that broke in my motor were black. Make sure the replacement is a copper one.

I must have been one of the first people to learn of this last year. To obtain a new copper colored cam, Crane told me it would be faster for me to go through Jegs or Summitt because Crane did not have any at the factory. Crane would then send a confirmation to them to refund my money for the new cam. I called Summitt and asked if they had a #168731 Crane. They said yes, we have 5 in stock. I said, well I need for you to do me a favor. Can you look in each of those boxes and see if any of them is copper colored? They called me back about an hour later and said that one of the five was copper, the other four were black. I told them the copper one had my name on it. LOL.
 

Quick Reply: Crane Hydraulic Roller cam failures


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.