Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Whats it going to run for me to switch to roller cams????Flatlander has kits for about $1000...is it worth it? Anyone know of any used ones around???What HP gains are average?????20-40 or less?

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Dyno hows it going . There are a bunch of companies out there that sell conversions that price sounds about right don't forget your going to need pushrods and springs to go with that. If you go with the set up one critical thing to look at is the amount of thread your screw in studs and your rocker adjustment nut have to engage generally the gm stud will have about 3/8 thread engagement if thats the case your going to need a longer screw in stud to keep from breaking the tip of the stud off.If you have any questions feel free to call Laz Mesa 1-305-884-5368

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Dyno,
I would only run the Morel retro fit roller. By far it is the best piece out there. Go with a good 3/8" pushrod, 1 piece. Don't use the welded ball end pushrods.

Chris

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

I have 454mags with roller cams/lifters ....would it be a good move to add the roller lifters ? I have been told it does make a difference ....

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Roller rockers? They add 5 or 10 hp, lower oil temps slightly. They are slightly more rigid so your valvetrain follows the cam better. Their real advantage is reliability. If you're running big cams hard like a lot of us do, they have a lower rate of failure.

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Dyno,
Be more specific. What are you asking? Are you talking about a Mark IV block designed for a flat tappet cam and converting to a roller cam and lifters, along with the change in the upper valve train to accomadate the cam and lifters? Isn't there some machine work required for the roller lifters in the Mark IV block? I'd like to know the straight and skinny on this conversion also.

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Gen 4's and 5's don't require machining, but do require a link bar lifter. Gen 6's cam factory with with spider set up and lifter bores were raised .266". . I think that is correct, then machined so as to accept the OEM roller lifters that have been used in the SBC's for some years. The OEM lifters will work in the old blocks but modifications to the block make it cost prohibative compared to just buying aftermarket lifters. After markets will fit in all blocks.

Note OEM lifters are limited to around .625" valve lift. This is due to the way the body is machined.

Hope this clears up some confusion.

Chris

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Dyno,
Here are the first photos of the Morel lifter that Chris suggested. These are exceptional pieces. They originally developed these in conjunction with McLaren Engines for the Buick Indy pushrod engines. They exceed all OEM requirements in independent testing, including marine. The non-riveted link bar is very stout.
Bob

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

I guess I should know this, but is this lifter made in hydraulic and solid versions?

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Dyno,

It should be no surprise to you that I have two sets of Crane link-bar roller lifters, roller rockers, and ARP studs for Mark IV motors. :D :D

One set is from a motor that dropped an exhaust valve @ 2 hours. They are probably still good, but would need close inspection. Other set of lifters, rockers and studs are good. Also have Comp 929 valve springs.

Give me a call if you are interested in any of these items ... you know I will give you a real good deal!

Chris

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Yes, almost all of the engines built today use hydraulic roller cams.

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

I have 1993 454's I think that makes them Gen 5.....right? Chris do the rollers from a gen 4 fit a 5? If they do we should talk!!!! I'm running Merlin Heads I dont know if that makes a differance.....

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Don, gen 4 and 5 use the standard retro fit lifters without any machining. My Merlin heads were the same height as GM heads so the recommended pushrods from Crane were the correct length. Crane has a different set of lifters for gen 6 blocks. They are supposed to fit without machining but they have a installation tip saying to check for link bar clearence. If you buy the Crane lifters, I still have those 2 sets of pushrods left over. You can try them to check the length. Give you a good deal.

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Thanks Ian!! I'll let you know.

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Sorry for bad info. I just reread the Crane site. The note about link bar clearence applied to aftermarket blocks. The gen 6 lifters are different from the 4's and 5's, they're aligned in the block with the standard Chevy alignment bars.

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

.625 lift sounds a bit much on the stock lifters.I'm curious if you have run it and with what cam.I'd be a bit nervous of the lifter going that far down in the guide plate.I know there is a bit more drop available on the intake lifter.For medium lifts I like the stock GM setup.I've heard of too many tie bar horror stories.Just a question to throw out there but aren't most lifters made by eaton and redistributed.

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

What is the max rpm you guys run your rollers at.I try an keep mine under 5500.

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

5500 with 11/32" stem stainless valves is about max. That goes with saying about 150# on the seat. You can get more rpm by using a restrictor pushrod but I don't see this condusive to drive life. The Morels will go to around 6000 to 6200 without problem.

Chris

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Where can you get these Morel pieces?

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Ive always been told by the old timers that the lifter bore to cam shaft alignment should be checked and trued by boring and sleeving if the perpendicularity is off at all (Mark 4). Or, do the newer retro lifter accomodate any angularity?

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

On my first blower motor I built I put all Crower valve train in it . It was a hyd roller about 625-642 lift with the crower hyd tappets. When we dynoed it we pulled it up to 6850rpm ,I guess it basically floated the valves there . That's where it peeked also.If it had a solid it prob would have made a little more power . But you would not turn the motor in the boat this high anyway.

The 2nd time around I stepped it up a good bit , A larger Jim Oddy Isky design Hdy roller again with the same Crower Hyd roller tappets and Iskys valve springs[Higher rate spring]. This cam peeked at 7250 this time before the tappet or spring gave up.Again in the boat I only turned it up to 61-6200 rpm.

When I go thru the motor again I will put the solid roller tappets in it . With the good valve train the valve adjustment should last a summer . I run the solid roller cam and tappets in my Chevelle street car and the Camaro and have very good luck with the valve lash not moving around .good parts :)

The last Chevelle motor I got about 13k miles out of there light weight tappets.Had about .100 slack in the roller.but it did not come apart.Sent them back to Crower and Dave & Reed Oliver said they never seen that many miles on a set.They sent a new set free :D

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Viper,
RM Builder, Bob, sells the Morel lifter.

Chris

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

I saw comp cams is handeling them also.What does this tell ya about there on comp cam tappets when they sell another[better] name brand???

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

So lets get back to the original ????whats it going to cost me?cams,lifters,pushrods, I can use my rockers and studs right?and If I need to have the bores trued up whats that cost? getting pricey!!!

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Around a $1000 for cam/lifters/pushrods. I would use Smith Brothers for the rods. Yes you can use rockers and studs. Lifter bore trueing is not neccessary but it does make HP. If you do that,the engines have to come down all the way. Usually around $400 per engine plus the bushings. HP gain, usually in a BBC around 20HP.

Chris

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

$1000 for 20 hp.....$50 per hp....I can go to 496's for about 2k and get about 40hp its a wash...cams,cubic inch....both? 3K per motor and get 60hp that translates into about 2mph if your lucky. This sport is killing my wallet.... I'm getting a kayak!

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Don't you have gen5 496's now?

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Dyno,
The 20HP referred to the lifter bore machining only. Cam and lifter HP increase is base on how far off the cam in the engine is. I have seen as much as 100HP and as little as 7HP... .although the 7HP was on a Limited Late Model.

Chris

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Dyno:
If your going thru your motors a good hydraulic roller cam and roller lifters can add some good power with careful selection, but most of the power comes from the cam not the roller lifter. The real plus with the roller setup is durability, decreased cam and lifter wear and valve train control with less spring pressures and less heat for the oil. But do keep in mind that a cam/valve train package consists of good cam, good lifters, good pushrods, good springs, retainers and locks along with good roller rockers. Just remember that changing just a few of these items can do more harm than not changing anything. Keep thinking system! system! system!
Raylar

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Thnaks all...Ian I'm still a 454.....today :p

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Go for the cubic inches if you're rebuilding those things. :cool:

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

Ian,
Couldn't agree more. Get them how you want them while you have the chance. It may cost more, but you'll only pay once.
Bob

Re: Cost of retro to Roller cams?
 

hey guys,
cpperformance has a package by comp with cam,lifters,springs,seals and retainers, all comp i believe, most for about 900 bucks.

anyone got goods and bads on the comp stuff?