should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

I need to remove the motors for a rebuild this winter and need to know what the easiest way to get them out is. The motors ar BBC's with B/W velvet drives and TRS outdrives. Should I disconect the transmission from the block and pull them that way or should I pull the drives to get the whole engine and transmission out. I have access to a overhead crane.

Thanks
Pat

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

I pulled mine earlier this year and just pulled the engines. I unbolted the transmission from the bell-housing (approx 6 bolts), lifted the motor slightly, pulled it forward until the trans was clear and lifted the motor out. The trans input shaft is far shorter than in a car so it is quite easy to clear. If you have trans coolers in the bell-housing you will also need to disconnect them.

To get the engines back in I lifted the trans until it was slightly elevated in the front and placed a wedge in between it and the transom to hold it up, this made mating up the engines far easier. It only took about 10 minutes put each back in and a get few bolts snugged up.

Bryan

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

You CAN remove the engines without the transmission, and you CAN remove the engine/tranny without removing the drive. But I dont see any reason why you would. It's a bigger pain in the a$$ to get the stuff back together if you do.
Remove the drive (2 trim ram bolts & the 6 nuts on the studs). Dissconnect all electrical, water, fuel, etc hookups. Then unbolt the 2 front motor mounts and the 2 tailstock boolts. Now everything comes out.
In the long run, it will be much easier and faster.
BTW, one person can handle a SSM II drive alone, both on and off. But neither I, nor my back, recomends it.
Gary

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

I do as Gary said pull tranny with motor.....easy with overhead crane....I only remove outdrive when assy. needs to go back in....TRS drives are heavy but I bear hug mine to remove and install just don't step on any roller skates when you do it!.....Fred

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Oh my god. Why remove stuff if you don't have to?? Let me see if I have this right? To avoid pulling 6 bolts between the trans and engine ( and remove starter) your going to:

1.pull six nuts off the drive,
2.disonnect trim pistons from drive (loosen both ends),
3.probably damage gasket/seal between drive and transom bell housing,
4.lift that drive and put it somewhere,
5.unhook trans cooler lines?(more goop in bildge)
6.unhook shift cable,
7.romove bolts from rear of trans to transom assembly
8.Etc. etc.??????


You guys must really LOVE to work on stuff.............

Motor will hook back up to trans - it's not 1 tenth the work as the "other" method.

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

OK guys, I understand everything you said. I've got Hubers in front of SpeedMasters. Hubers are plug-in (no driveshafts). It's clear I can remove the trannys by just sliding the engines forward. My question involves put the trannys back in. Do I need to remove the drive to mate the transmission to the drive? I appreciate the help. You guys obviously know what you're doing! Lou

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Lou, You can bring it down to the shop anytime. We can get the business half in where the hoists are. I don't think that you have to remove drives to re-plug. --- JP

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Jer- Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on that sometime. Right now, I'm just trying to understand what it would take. Drivetrain is perfect. Trim tab indicators are an irritant right now. You'd appreciate the boat next to me in my new indoor, heated storage. It's owned by original owner of my boat. It's a 42' Outer Limits with 1500hp Sterlings with #6's. It's got 2 hours on it. How's 'The Martini' running? Lou

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Ok Hang Time, I hear what your saying about more hassel about pulling the drives. I want to know what kind of preventive maintence I should do the the outdrives if I do pull them off. This was the 1st year for me with this boat. I do know that the boat sat unused on the trailer for 3 years previous. I was thinking of checking the U joints. What else is there to check? If I dont pull the drives and transmissions how easy is it to mate the trans back up to the motor. I dont want to do more work than necessary, but I want to make sure that things are right with the drive/gimble/transmission for next year

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

To mate the trans and the engine was very easy for me. After pulling the engines the transmissions hung low in the front. After holding them up with a wedge between the trans and transom everything lined up and the motors dropped right in. Once the motor is almost in place you may need to rock it from side to side a bit to get the splines on the flyweel/trans to line up. The important part is getting the engine balanced properly before getting it into the boat. I used an engine lifting plate on the intake and hung it from the back hole.

Bryan

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

I pull my drives every year. Grease the U joints, check the bellows for cracks, check for drive/tranny fluid leaks.
Gary

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Your right, you would think these guys would get it.You check everything plus service it(alighment ,u-joints,ect.).

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Oh yeah, if you have the drive off, tranny/motor out, it's a reall good time to check the gimbal for repairs. TRS are not as bad as Bravos for wearing out, but an old boat can have leakage problems/worn bearing at the upper swivel pin.
You can do the repairs on the boat with the gimbal housing "drill" kit. But if you've got a spline/spline upper pin, you'll be glad the housing is off the boat.
Gary

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

I would pull the motor and tranny all at once, it's actually easier. I broke a bell housing once and needed to remove the motor, it was more of a pain in the A$$ than just pulling the whole assembly. Aligning the splines on the trans and flex plate was a *****, it is much easier when the motor is on the ground.

Besides, if your spending all this money to rebuild the motors you ought to rebuild the trans, it's cheap assurance.

Panther

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Thats what I love about this website. All the different points of view -- when put together, the info can be priceless.

My method is same as Bryans. I find it to be rather easy. If you've got another person to spin the prop slightly while you push the motor and trans together it's even easier - otherwise just rock the motor a little till she pops in. Supporting front of trans before motor comes out will make it easier to get back together. Front of trans will drop an inch or two without the support.

Definately good point about checking everything out if it's your first year with the boat - especially if you don't know for sure when the drive was off last. For all you know, there could have been water sitting in the bellows around the u-joints for the 3 years of storage!! You'll feel much better having seen the condition of your u-joints etc, so you know exactly what you're starting with instead of just "wondering or hoping for the best". Nothing worse than "feeling" that u-joint vibration when you're out on the water, and of course a failure under a hard load............ouch.

While drive is off:
1. Check and regrease u-joints, maybe just replace if you have no idea how old they are, clean and regrease input shaft splines.

2. Bellows. Clean out (old excess grease goop) and check the rubber bellows for holes. If there are signs of water in this area, it either leaks, or the bildge filled up with water enouph to let water in from inside the boat (AKA sinking, or leaving the bottom plug in while on trailer for 3 years) . That water would remain there until the drive is taken off.

If you are not familiar with how any of these items should look or feel, have someone who does look at them while it's apart, so from then on you'll know whats right.

If you've got some power and someones been hard on it, expect to replace the coupler on the flywheel - it will probably have a loose or broken spring or two - not good -- and even if not, starting with new ones will give you a little piece of mind. When those springs break you may hear a little rattling back there while running with the hatch up. There are a couple of different ones that can be used, of different strengths, but some of the stronger ones will not fit on a standard flywheel without machining the flywheel for clearance.

When reinstalling the drive, it is very easy to damage the small rubber o-ring (new one that you just put in of course) at the oil passsage "valve" in the bell lhousing of the transom assembly. This valve shuts when you remove the drive to retain the rest of the drive fluid that's in the transom assembly reservior. When this o-ring is damaged, you are now relying on the dry gasket between the drive and transom assembly to keep oil in, and water out- most guys will put a good sealer around this area for extra measure, or in case the o-ring damage does occur.

It is also difficult to keep the front of the shaft up to plug into the trans as you push the drive in. Some will use along screwdriver - I never have. Note: I find this step alone to be alot more difficult than getting the motor and trans to hook back up! They don't go in as easy as the bravo's do.

TRS gimbals usually get alot of play in the top swivel pin/bearing (at the outside top of the transom assembly), especially if run hard without hydraulic steering. You can't just keep tightening it a little, like bravos. Once they get loose, they will only get looser....

If you don't know how old the trans's are (since last rebuild), then you will always worry about them. They could go next weekend, or last 4 more seasons......................

Yep, with boats, it seems money will solve most anything...........

Hope some of this helps -

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

I agree! All these things need to be maintained but most important...Alignment! You would be very suprized at what a 1/16th of an inch in the front mount throughs off the aligment at the drive bell housing. And as we all know you cant align the engine/tranny assy. with the drive on!

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Hello all, has anyone seen a case where the only way the engine will come out is to remove the drive? I have an 87 baja force 200, new engine is here but there doesn't seem to be enough room to get to harmonic off the front of the engine to allow any forward movement. this thing is crammed in there, water-pump pulley is almost rubbing front of engine compartment...any help is appreciated

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Remove the rear seat

Re: should I remove the engines with transmissions or not?
 

Pull the drive as pointed out above. The only additional comment I have is we have a just about bulletproof heavy duty drive late that is dished, no flywheel machining required. Also engages the transmission input better than the flat ones.