Fuel and Octane
 

Okay. So, I need to run a premium fuel of at least 91 octane.
I've been going to a marina that sells it, but it's out of the way, and pretty pricy.

(1)
My own marina sells 89 that has an additive called "ValvTect." It's supposed to be a stabilizer and an octane booster. Has anyone heard of this? Would I be safe using it?
Here's some more info:
http://www.valvtect.com/consumer.asp

(2)
Second, there are a wide range of so-called octane booster additives available at the auto parts. For instance, Lucas Oil makes one that claims an increase of one octane point per bottle added to 25 gallons of fuel.

Are these any good and can they safely and effectively raise the octane like they claim? Is there a difference between "boosted high octane" fuel and "real" high octane fuel?

Thanks.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Valvtect was introduced when lead was eliminated from fuel in order to lube valve seats. Old guys like me remember when the old engines required this until hardened seats were introduced. I'm not sure about it's octane boost capability but would not believe the octane rating is any higher than what's posted on the pump.
When I was running my 525SCs, I ALWAYS bought 93 octane and would usually add a bottle of booster on top of it. I never trust anything off the Autozone shelf entirely. Afterall, I'm not going to get any money from them if I melt a piston.
One other note, gas goes bad over time, and I discovered that NO ONE had bought any 93 octane from my marina between two times I filled up there, IN 4 WEEKS! So buy good gas from a good marina and a bottle of booster doesn't hurt.
Gary

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

" A bottle" ? most additives only treat 20 gallons. maybe a case a tank. :D

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

How long will fuel last in the boat before it goes bad?

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Thanks guys. Here's what valvtect has to say:

"Power boaters nationwide have a new gasoline available that is specially formulated for heavy-duty high performance marine engines. ValvTect Petroleum has introduced its new ValvTect Marine Gasoline formulated with a patented technology to improve the octane performance of heavy-duty marine gasoline engines. The product, ValvTect Octane Performance Improver has been test proven to improve engine octane performance up to 5 numbers, prevent premature engine wear up to 70%, significantly improve stability and reduce fuel consumption up to 8%.

And ya, a bottle won't do a whole lot, need the case. :D

Here's some info from Lucas:

Lucas Octane Booster

Lucas Octane Booster - A Real Octane Booster! Tested and proven to deliver three times more boost than most other brands. Lucas Octane Booster is a GENUINE Performance Enhancer! One 15 oz. bottle treats up to 25 gallons of fuel. Not street legal.

Key Benefits

* Safe for turbos, oxygen sensors and catalytic converters
* Suitable for use in fuel injected and carbureted engines
* Provides more boost than most other brands
* Promotes clean fuel burn for fewer emissions

Packaging

* #10026 - Case of 15 oz. bottles (12x1) - 14 lbs

Any thoughts.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

if you have to ask, its probably already bad...

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

There was a thread about this sometime ago. I believe I remember that gas goes bad (loses octane rating) rather quickly. I would like to say I remember it loses several points within a 30 day period. Be careful if not using a fuel stabilizer over winter layup!!!! Or put it away empty and fill with fresh high octane at least on the first fill up.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Anyone need 200 gallons of bad gas?

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Be aware that "marketing procedure" commonly refers to octane improvement in POINTS. Problem is, they are left to their own in defining what a POINT is.

Scan the fine print on some of the bottles of octane booster on the shelves, and you will see that 10 POINTS correspond to ONE unit of octane. 5 points is ONE-HALF of an octane unit.

The ValvTect used in marina gas is mostly a fuel stabilizer. I looked into it a few years back to see if our marina was wasting money by using it. Decided that it was worth the 4c per gallon from the standpoint of fuel stability. The added lead doesn't hurt anything cause even on hard seats it is a cushioning agent (there's not enough in it to make a big deal, else it would be illegal for boat gas with the greenies on rampage). The octane improver doesn't help the octane any noteworthy amount.

Remember that it takes a LOT of octane improver to do squat. Anything you add at less than 10:1 isn't going to do much.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

i use to mix 110 octane leaded gas with 93 unleaded. you gat a large jump in octane just by adding a gallon to 20, @ 3.75 a gallon its an inexpensive octane booster and the added lead is good for the valves and seats. i use to race 2 stroke bikes and had good luck with 104 octane booster also. just my .02

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Ratman, I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but here's the math (and math never lies)

1 gallon of 110 octane UNLEADED mixed with 20 gallons of 93 Unleaded yields 21 gallons of 93.81 octane brew.

Using leaded 110 will give a teeny bump to, maybe, 94.0 tops.

I raced and tuned two strokes for a looong time. MX bikes run just fine on pump gas, even when modified with porting and pipes. Adding octane to them can keep you out of detonation if you've missed your jetting to the lean side, but it usually isn't needed. Two stroke roadracers are set up for race gas, and "104+ octane booster" won't keep them from chicken-tracking the pistons. The way I look at it, is you either have a pump gas motor or you have a race gas motor. It just gets too hard to keep track of for all that "middle ground"...

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

i sell a product for race cars. its called Torco. i run 17 psi boost on the street with it to keep any chance of detonaion down.93 turned to 104 octane its unleaded and acts like a race fuel. i have used for three years and now i sell it. check it out on there site [url]
http://www.torcoracefuels.com/torcoenter.htm

i sell it for $69 a case and will treat up to 120 gal.

look under the accelerators way better than all the others i know i have tried them all

im Olson on wisconsin's distributor list

UNLEADED & LEADED ACCELERATOR, RACE FUEL CONCENTRATE.




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Torco Race Fuels is the first and only race fuel manufacturer to produce a real race fuel concentrate that performs like a race fuel. This product is not an octane boost; it is a race fuel concentrate that transforms a 93-octane super no lead up to a 107-octane race fuel when proper mixing instructions are followed.

There are many different variations of blending the concentrate to suit the customer’s needs:

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1. Blend the Leaded concentrate with 100 low lead aviation fuels to get up to 112-octane race fuel that really flies!!!!

2. This concentrate when blended with a race fuel makes a Nitrous fuel to fit many applications.

3. The Leaded concentrate makes up to a 106-octane race fuel when blended properly. Plus giving the needed lubricity of LEAD!!!

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The Unleaded concentrate when blended with a 93-octane super unleaded makes up to a 104-octane race fuel for many of today's streetcars, motorcycles, watercraft, ATV's, and many other motor sport applications!



Take a case or two with and never worry again about not having a high-octane racing fuel for great performance for stock or modified application!!




OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE WITHOUT HAVING TO CARRY A LARGE AMOUNT OF RACE FUEL!!!

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Thanks mcollinstn and SMOKDU. That's very helpful.

SMOKDU, what would it take to turn 89 into 91 or 92. How much would one of your 'cases' treat?

Trying to do the math here to figure out if it's worth making "fuel brew" or just chaulking it up and going out of the way to the 91 pump.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

mcollinstn, i was mixing high octane 110 leaded gas with 93 octane unleaded. ratman

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Yeah, I understand, man.
But a 1 to 20 only raises you a full point. Possibly two on the outside.
Sure, the lead is a factor, and it works on diminishing effect so the first tad of lead has more effect than the next, and so on. But Leaded 110 doesn't have all THAT much lead in it. And your mix ratio simply makes it impossible to realize the huge gains many people assume they are getting.

Not necessarily a bad thing, though, since any additional buffer can take care of borderline conditions. And lead concentrate can have a pretty dramatic effect on its own, as long as you don't need more than 95 octane or so. It's just hard on sparkplugs (although boat plugs get changed often enough its not an issue) and fish.

The TORCO concentrate mentioned is probably the most effective "bang for the size" that you can legally obtain. Say you go on a long weekend where they only have 89 available. Obviously you don't want to drag a tanker truck along with you so the TORCO concentrate takes up the least hauling space and returns the best results. But once again, the marketing language used for that product is as misleading as all the others. The difference is that this stuff DOES have kick.

One 32 oz can costs about $17, but delivers the same end result as adding 3.5 gallons of leaded 118. (The leaded 118 at $7.00 per gallon will save you about $3 over the Torco mix due to the fact that you get "more fuel" by 3 gallons). But there is no denying the packaging benefit to the 32 oz metal cans that the Torco comes in.

<< from the ratio chart on the bottles >> note that the bottle shows a chart with 93 octane base fuel, so all numbers are dropped 4 to compensate.
32oz of Leaded Torco "Accelerator" Race Fuel Concentrate in 20 gallons of 89 will give you 93. (That's as good a kick as you can get in a bottle.)
32 oz in 10 gallons of 89 will give you 100.
32 oz in 5 gallons of 89 will give you 103.
This trend shows that adding 32 oz to 40 gallons of 89 *should* give you your 91 you are after. This corresponds to a price increase of $17 for 40 gallons, which is an extra 42 cents per gallon.

If you need a 91 octane minimum, you can clearly see that it is cheaper to find 91 around the lake somewhere than to "make" your own.

Best of luck.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Bingo. That's what I was looking for. Thanks a million! :)

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

3-4 months unless it's stabilized while it's still fresh. It's the air that ruins the unleaded fuel, and also sunlight, but there is no sunlight in the fuel tanks.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

put a little DIESEL FUEL in that puppy, SEE HOW THAT DOES. :drink: :drink:


Happy Holiday's Cig Daz.

Darin :drink: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Does the Torco have packaging that allows you to keep it on the boat safely so that if you find yourself in a bind?

Maybe you can post a picture?

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

32 oz. Metal cans. Screw off caps.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

It will do a number on your plugs too. I learned a long time ago that if you need octane then use race gas. When you get serious with boost then your crazy to think a driveway blend is going to get you the numbers you need. For awhile we had decent luck with a Toluene mix but even that gets pricey.

Roby

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

ROBY

Are you also referring to the Torco?

What about in higher compression/ non supercharged applications?

Toluene? What kind of success? Was cost the only downside? It is hard to get since the meth labs use it too.

Personally I need something portable to get me by when the only thing at the pump is 89 and I need to get home.

Mac;

If Torco spilled, would it melt through the boat?

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

...and a siphon. :D

Tierre Verde is where I've been going, it's king of a pain though - and pricy. It would be great if I could take care of fueling at my home port.

Thanks.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Just the 104 Octane Boost seem to foul the plugs. When I say foul I mean under high boost it would be flame out time. idle and normal engine operating would be fine. 104 leaves a rust colored residue on the spark plugs that limits performance and shortens plug life. Also I have found that it leaves that same residue on the exhaust valves - not that that hinders performance. Below I have pasted a little info on Toluene.

Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane

Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.

toluene was used extensively in the turbo era in the 1980s by all the Formula 1 teams. The 1.5 liter turbocharged engines ran as much as 5 bars of boost (73 psi) in qualifying and 4 bars (59 psi) in the actual race. Power output exceeded 1500bhp, which translates into 1000bhp/liter, an astronomical figure.

Mindful of the evil reputation of octane boosters in general, toluene is a very safe choice because it is one of the main octane boosters used by oil companies in producing ordinary gasoline of all grades. Thus if toluene is indeed harmful to your engine as feared, your engine would have disintegrated long, long ago since ordinary pump gasoline can contain as much as 50% aromatic hydrocarbons.

Toluene is a pure hydrocarbon (C7H8). i.e. it contains only hydrogen and carbon atoms. It belongs to a particular category of hydrocarbons called aromatic hydrocarbons. Complete combustion of toluene yields CO2 and H2O. This fact ensures that the entire emission control system such as the catalyst and oxygen sensor of your car is unaffected. There are no metallic compounds (lead, magnesium etc), no nitro compounds and no oxygen atoms in toluene. It is made up of exactly the same ingredients as ordinary gasoline. In fact it is one of the main ingredients of gasoline.

Toluene has a RON octane rating of 121 and a MON rating of 107, leading to a (R+M)/2 rating of 114. (R+M)/2 is how ordinary fuels are rated in the US. Note that toluene has a sensitivity rating of 121-107=14. This compares favorably with alcohols which have sensitivities in the 20-30 range. The more sensitive a fuel is the more its performance degrades under load. Toluene's low sensitivity means that it is an excellent fuel for a heavily loaded engine.

Toluene is denser than ordinary gasoline (0.87 g/mL vs. 0.72-0.74) and contains more energy per unit volume. Thus combustion of toluene leads to more energy being liberated and thus more power generated. This is in contrast to oxygenated octane boosters like ethanol or MTBE which contain less energy per unit volume compared to gasoline.

Because toluene is such an effective anti knock fuel it also means that it is more difficult to ignite at low temperatures. Thus too strong a concentration of toluene will lead to poor cold start and running characteristics. I recommend that the concentration of toluene used to not exceed what the engine is capable of utilizing. i.e. Experiment with small increases in concentration until you can no longer detect an improvement.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Can any one advise please if on a 150 VMAx TRP Yamaha 2-strokes would be OK if I use octane booster plus mix another 1:100 oil in the main fuel tank on top of what the engine gets from its own set up so I give more lubrication?

This is for our racing boat

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Nick,

I think you need to remove those horrible Prochargers and you would save money on fuel, save money on insurance, save the drives and make refueling much more convenient! Yea ... that's the ticket ... think economy and convenience!:drink:

I'll even help you dispose of those terrible things! :evilb:

Leo

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Manos, what cranking compression you running on those Yammies?
Unless you are running some tight heads, I wouldn't think you'd need additional octane.

And "extra" oil in the gas?? If it were my race motor, the oil injection would have been disconnected a long time ago. One less variable to worry about...

If you are dead set on keeping the injection, then an additional 100:1 mix will be helpful, but you'll need to examine your plugs for a lean condition and possibly rejet.

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

The wrenches get put into action after the holidays. ;)

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Nick,

You are certainly more level-headed than I could ever be! Regardless of the realities of life I could never give up the power once I had the oppotunity to experience it.

Leo

Re: Fuel and Octane
 

Don't ever try to substitute gas octane rating with octane booster. I religiously use 92 or 93 octane gas and 1 bottle of VP C5 (which they don't make anymore, but was replaced with VP octane booster) for every 20 gallons of fuel. The C5 bottles contained less and treated 20 gallons. The new octane booster has more in it and they say it treats 25 gallons. The difference is mainly in the concentration. So use the bigger bottle to treat 20 gallons and it is about the same as C5...I swear by it and so do my blower motors with 10 lbs. :evilb: