500efis with XR
 

On a 10,000lb cig TIGER that runs 73mph, I want to go 85. What do I do?

Wild

Re: 500efis with XR
 

Vortech Prochargers.

Re: 500efis with XR
 

How much, dang LS you are everywhere.

If i bump them to 700-750hp will that kill the XR drives

Wild

Re: 500efis with XR
 

or whipples....

750 horse in a big cig...... ask GLH

Re: 500efis with XR
 

I dont think you need that much power to pick up 13 mph. Look to get 600-650/ per motor and youll see 80-85. I would stroke them to 540s. that will give you a mild 600-650hp at low comp around 5500rpms. How many hours on the 500s? You may want to tear them down anyway before you put blowers on. So, its your choice.

Re: 500efis with XR
 

Bruce, you are talking french to me, sorry I am no mechanic,

Stoke them???? what does that mean
250 hrs
What type of blowers

Thanks

Re: 500efis with XR
 

There is a 96' TG out there w/American Flag graphics that has 500EFI and what I think is a whipple. Around 625hp? That would do it and you wouldn't kill your drives.

LS JR.

Re: 500efis with XR
 

Wild,

01, T/S Tiger, 575's runs 84 in fresh water, 4 guys and half fuel.

Jamie

Re: 500efis with XR
 

What is the price difference between votecs and whipples, what other pros and cons about each. And who do I contact about each.

Thanks

Randy Wild

Re: 500efis with XR
 

Sorry wild. my bad

If you change your crank rod and pistons, to increase the stroke. You will increase your cubic inch from 502 to 540. That alone will give you 600 hp or more. You'll probably need to change your cam and do some mild head work as well along with EFI adjustment.

the cost for this work will probably run 5,000 - 7,000 per side

I dont know too much about blowers, but I see many guys going with whipple chargers or prochargers on the 500 efis. With 250 hrs on your engines, it would be prudent to check them out before going the blower route. With that in mind, your lookin at 6,000-8,000 per side. Either way, you will get 650 reliable HP, 85 mph and your XRs will live.

Just My opinion. Im no professional.

Re: 500efis with XR
 

how about some pics of all these ideas. 8-71s, what

Thanks

Re: 500efis with XR
 

Before & after

Re: 500efis with XR
 

Thats what im talikin about

very nice set up, looks like the new 600sci without the price tag

Thanks LS

Re: 500efis with XR
 

What do you do?
A. Whipples will give you around 720hp, my guess $10k per engines. $20k
B. Re-prop properly. $2k
C. Tighten the top cap of your XR's to 35ft/pds every weekend. Specially the left turning one.
D. Never go over 3000rpm till your up on plane and are done accelerating.
E. Buy a spare XR for that rainy day, unless you live in Florida and can go see Mark at BAM or a similarly stocking Merc dealer! $7k
F. Running light and well proped my bet (with help from the speed calc.) 86 MPH.

You won't be the fastest on most days but you'll be up there on the days people remember... And it only counts in the sh!t.
Plus it sounds pretty good! <<--CLIK HERE

- All that crap $29k
- Having a freaking Cigarette 42 that goes over 80 and rides in the sh!t safer than most rides... Priceless

That fufilled A LOT of my boating fantasies. Looks kinda cool also!

http://www.offshoreonly.com/gallery/...mmer_Setup.jpg

Re: 500efis with XR
 

Ho!!! forgot ......... buy one first.

Re: 500efis with XR
 

First you need to get rid of the Bravos. The maintenance, the babying the boat, the cost of repairs combined with having to carry a spare so that your weekend does not get ruined is bogus.

I cannot believe you guys accept this as normal boating.

Put a set of blowers on the motors, which ever set makes the most economical sense as none of them are going to make your engines last longer than any other and change the drives to something as reliable as you would like to be.

Re: 500efis with XR
 

OK I'll play...

$60,000 to buy #6's not even counting the tranny, the re-rig and glasswork.

or

Arnesons whatever they will cost with a tranny, the glasswork again and rigging without forgetting that your boat will be worth about $40,000 less because of them...

I'll keep suffering.

Rik I love your posts and knowledge but suggest to me a financially comparable alternative for the drives that will not absolutely kill the resale and be serviceable somewhere else than NASA. :D

Re: 500efis with XR
 

I am aware of the general drop in resale value of a surface drive boat, but I don't understand the drama.

Here's the complete list of "Minuses" on a surface drive boat:
1) the props are exposed and stick out behind the boat where swimmers can get into them easier.
2) the props stick back farther, and are also closer to the surface, which makes it impossible to "BACK" the boat into a slip at the waterfront bar all the way back so you can step from the dock to the swim platform (unless you have a "porch" style swim platform).
3) the props cost more
4) docking requires a bit more application of power, and can be "splashier" from the props (but experience, prop selection, and down trim will tame that problem).

As far as I can tell, that is the complete list of CONS.

PROS?
1) Boat will go faster with the same power.
2) Drive system can be repaired/serviced by a normal backyard mechanic (normal bearings, and straightforward stuff).
3) If used within the power spec for the size drive, there is no need to baby anything about it. Durable. No weird gimbals to wear out or break. No top cap to fatigue, no vertical shaft to twist.
4) Costs less than any similarly durable drive out there.
5) slick shifting hydraulic transmissions

But the general public is afraid of them. And expects a discount for a boat equipped with them.

My personal opinion?
It depends on what you want out of your boat.

Re: 500efis with XR
 

I was not implying the use of Arneson's but at the same time the boats are not going to decrease in value by $40K if they had them. This is the mentality that needs changing.

There are two logical choices.

One, as you are very strong proponent of, is to continue to use a Bravos and not really enjoy the boat b/c of the burning thoughts of "is this the day that's going to cost me some serious $$".

I think he should leave the boat alone if this is the route he is forced to take as your $40K hit in value argument is the maintenance/upgrades of the Bravos from the increased HP that he wants to use over time.

Two, increase the HP and change the drives.

He can use SSM#5's like Jassman or SSM#6's like others.

Is this work? Hell Yes! Does this cost a lot of $$, Hell Yes! But what is the cost of your weekends and holidays or a vacation and a broken boat? Nothing is free, especially a fast reliable boat.

A lot of people do not have a long boating season as we do on the West Coast or South East. So enjoying the boat is the primary reason for purchasing it and using it.

With the suggestions of blowers or prochargers to increase the engines power without following through and making a total solid package, this only increased the time bomb in the Bravos.

The perplexity is the mentality by which some accept this time bomb and most have even embraced it to the point whereby the erroneous thoughts of an alternative solution are viewed unacceptable.

I think that the alternative might cost some up front but staying with the current mentality cost more on an on going basis, both in time, frustration and of course $$$$.

Re: 500efis with XR
 

I just wanted to shed a little light on this subject. I again am in the process of doing another 4300 Nortech. The first time I built it I could not afford the big ticket #6 drives, so I opted for #5 drives, which have run flawless with only 750hp behind them. I am being told cause they are not #6's my resale has dropped about 40k, which is about the difference between the 2 drives. My thinking is anything with a tranny will live much longer than a bravo boat, I'll never go back to that. I have a few friends that has a 03' 38 Hustler with 575's and bravo's, he just drove a red 38 Hustler with 525's and the bravo/Arneson. He was extremely impressed, the boat planed up as quick as his bravo 38 Hustler, handled better, and he stated docked as easy. I know he wouldn't lie to me. The other person at Lake Cumberland (TONY) is a salesperson there, good guy, he said the exact same thing, he was also rather impressed. His problem is resale. The mentality needs to change, more Arneson boats need to get out there, there are alot of happy customers that I have talked to here on OSO, that love them. My delima is either build twin 925's blower motors behind some sixes or do a triple 625-750 nat. asp. behind some Arneson ASD8/6's for approx. the same money, just slightly less. Hard desicions, but am seriously looking at the pro's and con's as well. Thanks Jeff

Re: 500efis with XR
 

Will ASD8's not hold up the the Blown 925"s in a twin setup?

Re: 500efis with XR
 

Easily, there are a few members here with well over 1100hp with that application. I would bet the ASD8-6 would do it, Rik will give you a straight anwser.