expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

is there any expert motor builders that would be willing to advise my motor builder about installing blowers willing to pay for time. I live in RI. first where looking for a good front mounted blowers and intercoolers. We have been looking at the prochargers but there are a couple of problems. 1. there intercooler is ALUM. which is not good for salt water application. 2. there is no one there to tell us how to set up the carb.'s, they sell a kit by they admit there are no good directions its kind of hit and miss. 3. where looking to up grade all the internal rods, pistons, valves, gaskets, while we have it apart. there saying no leave it stock. this is what where looking for, first a good front mounted blower w/ a intercooler that will hold up to salt water. second someone who can tell us what would be the best to change in the motors while we have them apart. third someone who can tell us the best comprssion ratio. fourth someone who can tell us how to set up the carbs. fourth even though these are made for stock motors we want to make them stronger to eliminate and future problems that much sooner.

now the tech stuff. this is a very large heavy go fast boat. wellcraft excalibur eagle 42', weight about 15000lbs. w/ fuel, water, gear, people. we have 2 GM 454 HO motors, carburated w/ trs drives. (we know drives can only hold about 650 hp we will worry about new drives in future) we know the boat will never win any races but we like to get into the 80's if possible. any advise would be appreciated. if you live in RI and would like to work with machine shop would be willing to pay for your time.

thanks

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

Electrical1,Don't take this as a personal attack BUT weren't you the guy who's motor builder had you buy new carbs when your new motor melted down due to it being to lean or having hotspots and they couldn't figure out why your motors wouldn't hold together? If these are the same guys who put 3 or 4 motors in your boat that all failed after hardly any run time i would RUN from them and under NO circumstances let them experiment with blowers. I am no expert at blower motors but i have one in my boat and as turn key and simple as procharger would like you to think they are they are not. With your history of problems with your motors and the inexperience of your motor guys with blowers in the long run you would be much better off if you really want blown motors to have the "expert" your looking for build your motors,dyno them,work the bugs out on dyno,ship them to you and give you tech support on phone or even take your whole boat there if problems arise.It will seem like alot more money if someone gives you a price on turn key motors but in the big picture/long run if these guys get it too lean or too rich to be safe you'll have a screwed up package and will end up paying in the long run anyways.Like i said,i'm not trying to slam on you or single you out,i remember your despair and all the trouble you had with your ho motors last year. You should call around and see if a reputable shop will build the motors you have,Tyler Crockett at crockett marine could do something for you with the parts you have-810-324-2720 and i'm sure alot of people will chime in with their reccomendations too,Smitty

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

Hey Smitty, where the heck ya been? Hibernating? You've kept a low profile lately. It's good to hear from ya. Lou

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

If I was you I would pack up your motor and take a drive up to Maine and have Timmy Dor build them for you. Worth the drive. He builds them like no other, prices are good, and he is one of the most knowledgable guys around.

Jon

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

I have a customer in Coventry, RI that is very good with centrifical blown applications.

Chris

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

The problems I had last year was with the installer, he is long gone. The motors where crate motors and I received a lot of advise from off shore to have the motors completely torn down and gone threw even though there crate motors. I am now having these new motors gone right through and I'm looking for good advise on what I should change and upgrade while there apart espicially with adding these charges. The machine shop builds racing motors for cars. Thats why where looking for someone with boat motor knowledge. Chris would your friend in Coventry be willing to work with or share some information with the machine shop in Warwick RI, I'd be glad to pay him. The problem is Procharger offers no good advise they claim just stick them on stock motors. While I have them apart I want to build them stronger. Then there is the problem of the alum. intercoolers with salt water. Then there is the problem of the carb.s setting because there under presure now. procharger mainly deals with FI motors. they say they offer a kit for the carburators but that there direction are not to good and you have to kind of pl;ay with it. I need some one who has some real knowledge with this. Plus I want to run them on pump gas around 89 oct. not 92 or 94 which is hard to find on the water around here.

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

Electrical1,if you get prochargers and want to run them on 89 octane gas make sure the packages you order use the bigger aw504 innercoolers even if you only buy m-1's. Procharger isn't real clear in their advertising but their book used to show you could only run 3.5 lbs boost with the 324 innercooler on 89 octane and 5 -6 psi boost with 504 innercooler on 89 octane. They did also tell me on the phone that you can run more maximum boost with a carburated application on the same amount of octane over fuel injection. The instrustion manual that came with mine also says to never run gas with less than 91 octane although their advertising says you can run 5 psi of boost w/89 octane.If you think you might ever want to step the boost up to 8 or 9 psi,spend the money initially and upgrade the pulleys and belts to 12 rib,i got the 8 rib at first,theres nothing like buying parts twice!Keep us posted on what you end up putting on your boat,Smitty

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

I'm just curious but if you're running cast iron heads, trying to run 89 octane with a Procharger, are you really going to be able to run enough boost to get much gain out of 454's (which seem small for this application anyway) without pushing them to the edge and taking a chance on blowing up 2 motors, again????

It just seems like good solid N/A big cube motors would be the most bang for the buck WITH reliability for a boat that heavy.

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

The most cost effective find a pair of 502 ALU heads and B&M blowers you need low rpm cruiser motors the pro chargers work better with a little rpm. Inconel exhaust valves JE pistons flat tops or slight dish more compression will make more power faster.That is a lot of boat you have it wont hit 80 with 454 you can put in stroker kits that will help.Realistic speed gains of 10 to 15 mph keep it simple send your carbs to nickerson or some one like that.

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

I have used the procharger with success, but it maybe cheaper to go with the roots blowers if you have engine compartment room. All the pc carb guys say Dean Nickerson is the man with this type of set up. I would call him and let him select the necessary parts, I think they will sell all the stuff at a reasonable price and then have him set up a blow through carb that you can bolt up and know is right! In my opinion doing it this way would be good insuance that you will have a good package, think of the carb first instead of last. Eric

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

I have a fair amount of experience with a setup just like you are looking for although theyare 502's, 8.5:1 Static compression ratio with stock edelbrock aluminum heads, Procharger is correct the blowers are designed to go on stock motors and work well on them how ever if you want better internals that would always be better, these that i am talking about have M-4 Prochargers (oil fed old ones ) with dual quads on an Offenhauser intake in the box Sorry no Nickersons in there though just stock 465 cfm carbs with metering blocks in the back, Lightning headers ( with silent choice ) and MSD ignition, runs a ton of boost on 93 octane. and pushes a 33 scarab to 114 on GPS. Clay Smith cams and Valve train, there is not a lot of money in these engines I am currently pulling one back out of the boat after three years of running to check it out and i plan to stick it on a dyno just to see what it makes not to try and tune it for more power, it runs great has never had any mechanical problems in three seasons with the M-4's and it had M-1's on it from new these blocks, cranks, and rods are from the original motors. maybe its an exceptional case i don't know you be the judge, but there is two of them in there. I am a firm beliver in the properly set up procharger i do feel your speed goals may be a little lofty but you never know. A roots and screw will produce more tourque down low but won't make more power, and that torque getting on plane etc. will help you find the end of your TRS drives, There are a lot of variable to think about when picking a engine super charger setup. As far as the alum. core most intercoolers are that way some have different materials that may be better suited but the procharger intercooler is also fairly easy to flush i think you could take control of that situation. I would have to check weather or not the 648 cu in cooler may be overkill for your setup but the 504 would definitely work. and lastly if octane of fuel is the least bit of concern, i wouldn't get a roots blower, the % of power gain from what your motor makes on its own is very small and comes with a ton of heat, don't do that oh yeah all that is just my Professional opinion derived from a "fair bit" of experience.

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

Electrical,
The guy in Coventry is Ed Curtis, Flowtech Induction. His number is 401 828 9302. Is is very good with Pro Charger stuff and is well schooled in engines. Tell him Chris Straub from Stef's Oil Pans told you to call.

Chris

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

Electrical Who are you using in Warwick??

Gerry

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

Talk to Dean Nickerson at (215) 781 - 1370. He has a 498 stroker package that would work well in your heavy boat. With a Vortech blower and an Rtech Supercooler he dynos at 950 HP on 92 octane. He is getting away with that because he has a light boat. I would run a bigger top pulley and settle for 850 HP in your case. We can have the intercooler core treated with a Milspec coating that will greatly improve longevity in salt water. Regular flushing is still a good idea.

Re: expert motor builders w/ blowers advise wanted
 

Sounds like a lot of work,might be selling these soon. 600in 1050hp on pump
fuel. My engine builder has been building marine race and blower motors for
over 25 years.Just a thought if your interested send me a E-mail.

what's in your engines?
 

What is in your engines? It's been a long time. Still have them? What size blowers? What boost?

These guys are close to you and very knowledgeable with blowers of all kinds..
http://www.perfmar.com/ContactUs.htm

The only way that baby will see 80 is on the trailer going down the highway :rolleyes:

I have a pair of B&M 177's if anyone is interested. Both just came back from TBS and have about 10 hrs on them. $3500. for the pair would get them. Their on ebay now in boat and race car parts.

I have a boat with slightly less weight and a better hull design and -2 short Bravos. With 650-700 hp ea. side I've gone 78 mph. An Excaliber Eagle will probably take 800 per side to get 80 mph. Start with 502's at least. Those poor TRS's.:eek::eek:

With a boat as heavy as yours you are going to need lots of torque. I would start with a minimum of 572 cu. in. if you would like to email me I can get more info from you and point you in the right direction. [email protected]