TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Which is best for marine use?

All 3 appear to be anodized. ATI is rebuildable, TCI has no elastomer or fluids. I was told The fluidampr's go bad in a short time (silicone solidifies).

Any one with good or bad experiences with the above?

Other suggestions?

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Call a few crankshaft MFG's. They'll give you some GOOD information over the phone on what not to use and what to use.

Chris

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

I have used the fluiddampr for years without any problem at all. Never heard of any problems from friends that also use them.

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

GOOD advice :)

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

ATI is what I see on most motors.

I think on the Fluiddamper you cant ballance the motor with them on the crank

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

I've always used ATI

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

How do the TCIs hold up in the marine environment?

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

I have never seen or heard of anybody using the TCI.

There rattler uses balls things rolling around in side the dampener.I don't like that idea. Just me though

Now Chris I know you know who all the big guys use ,I guess You cant say because most buy from you? :D

rob

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

I work med/safety at Michigan Speedway. The manager/lead mechanic of the IROC fleet strongly recommended A.T.I. over the other brands. I run them on my Sterlings and just put one on my '57 283 fuellie motor being rebuilt.

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Rob,
No we only make crank hubs and billet timing pointers. The crank guys know first hand what is giving builders trouble and what isn't. I had one customer that was building driving school engines, 500HP Iron headed 358CID, that lost 6 engines. The cause was the harmonic damper. Call them they will be truthful.

Chris

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Stay away from fluid dampners, go wit a Romac or ATI, balance is the key in any engine.......

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

The coating on the ATIs is zinc chromate not anodizing. I believe that is pretty corrosion resistant.

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Who is Romac???


2112 they will get a chalky .The allen head counter sunk bolts will rust also It kinda looks like gun blueing?

Just get them allready chrome. :drink:

cstraub [Chris] you know I know what you sell. I have a account with you :drink:

Rob

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

So,,, where does the stock dampener play into this mystery. Ive use nothing else for years and never had a problem that could be linked to the balancer.

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

most winston cup and bush engines use ATI
sorry nextel cup

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

The reason NASCAR cars use ATI dampers is because Fluidampr’s are against the rules. The silicone fluid in a fluid will never go bad if the damper is replaced at major overhauls. If you overhaul the engine several times over many years and just keep using the original Fluidampr then is possible that it might fail.

You do not balance the crank with the Fluidampr installed. Each component of the Fluidampr is precision computer balanced prior to assemble at the factory in Springville NY. During final assemble the viscous fluid is added, you cannot balance a fluid. So the proper procedure is to install the Fluidampr after the crank is balanced.
Here is a good explanation for how they work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
Or check out www.fluidampr.com

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

But how do you tell when one goes bad?

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

strip, don't you have 525efis with a whipple?

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

If you replace the Fluidampr with the other parts that need replacement at your major overhauls the fluidampr will never go bad.

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Does that go for the same with a ATI.

Also how many miles,hours,time ya recomend [think] we should do this.

I have a Chrome Fluid D on my street/race car with about 40k on it.

Rob :drink:

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

nope http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...0&goto=newpost

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

I have FD on my 598 NA EFI engines. They have two seasons on them. They are both rusted and I have lost a front main seal on one of them. I am going to have both replaced this winter with ATI with 6 pulley mounting holes for possible future blower upgrade. Joe Murray

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

So your thinking about getting blown :D :evilb:

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Joe I am sorry for the problems you are having with your Fluidampr’s. With regard to the corrosion, If you got some of the Black Oxide dampers made by the previous management then I can appreciate that you might be having corrosion problem. As a US Navy Veteran I can know how difficult it is to keep ahead of corrosion problems when you are around salt water. Currently Aluminum Fluidampr’s are black anodized and steel Fluidampr’s use Black Zinc Chromate which is more rust resistant than Black Oxide.

Your other complaint I am having a little more trouble understanding. Fluidampr’s do not have seals they are laser welded, therefore I have concluded that you must be talking about the main seal of the engine. I’ve never heard of the complaint that a damper knocked out the front main seal on an engine and I don’t know why a damper would cause it.

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Kirkc- Thanks, for your use of the Fluidampr

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Rob-
Q. Does that go for the same with a ATI.
A. I prefer not to comment on ATI

Q. Also how many miles, hours, time ya recomend [think] we should do this.

Q. I have a Chrome Fluid D on my street/race car with about 40k on it.

Q. But how do you tell when one goes bad?

A. These are related questions and they are not easy to answer without giving you a little background on the history of viscous dampers. We invented (One of our parent companies Houdaille) the viscous torsional harmonic vibration dampener for crankshaft applications in 1948. No one has built more viscous dampers than we have, and no one knows more about how to measure and analyze crankshaft torsional vibrations than our engineering dept. We know that heavy duty diesel engines like the Detroit 60 Series make a damper work much harder than drag racing or street applications. We have supplied just short of one million viscous dampers to Detroit Diesel for the Series 60 diesel engine and it “Must last for a million miles” because the engine is guaranteed by Detroit Diesel for a million miles. We have never seen a failed viscous damper from a Series 60 Engine.

The heavy duty diesel dampers like the ones for the Detroit are marketed under the VibratechTVD brand and the high performance dampers are marketed by Fluidampr. Both VibratechTVD and Fluidampr are made in Springville NY, USA. All of our viscous are designed by the same team of engineers and dyno tested by the same team of engineering technicians. The Fluidampr’s are built to a much higher structural standard than the heavy duty dampers because they are SFI certified safe too 12,500 rpm.

Given all of the above I can confidently say that the fluid will never fail in a performance street or a performance racing application.
Torsional vibration in a performance boat is a different matter. Many times the engines are the same. The thing is that the propellers drivelines/shafts and gear boxes all have their own torsional resonant frequency’s which combine with the engine’s own harmonics. The engine damper is usually the only component in the system to soak up all of that destructive energy, before it causes mechanical breakage/excessive wear in your propulsion system. One thing I can absolutely guarantee is that when it comes to soaking up vibrations from a combination of factors nothing works better that a Fluidampr. Still because of this extreme use we must recommend that the Fluidampr be replaced at engine over haul times.

I should also point out that to get the best performance from a Fluidampr it must be properly installed. It must be a true press fit (and you can not use a hammer) you must have a harmonic damper installation tool, and it is best to use assemble lube. Sorry I know this is old hat to you but for other people reading the forum.

Keith Eickart, an experienced off shore boat engine builder uses nothing but Fluidampr. There are over 200,000 Fluidampr’s shipped in 20 years and we have never seen a Fluidampr come back that the fluid failed.

Another good thing to know is that over the last few years we have tightened all of the internal machining tolerances by more than 90%. So when you buy a Fluidampr today you are buying the equivalent of a blueprinted engine. We also have a lot of info on our websites at www.fluidampr.com and www.vibratechtvd.com.

I am sorry that the Work Boat Show was cancelled later this month. I would have liked to have one of our people talk to you while we were there. We will be at the PRI show in Orlando, FL December 1, 2, 3 and our sales professionals would be glad to discus offshore applications there.

Best regards,
Don

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Don thanks for the reply. I didn't know the background on FD. thats interesting :D

Is there any air in them or is it solid fluid?

Is the Fluid in them thick? I am guessing it a gell. Does it change when its cold ?

The ATI I guess has the rubber stuff in there to absorb the vibs.

The TCI rattler just doesn't seem like a good designed to me with that inner thing rattling around inside of it.imo

Don what you position with Vibratech?


Thanks again sorry for all the QA. just want to learn

Rob :drink:

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Not that I have any experience with fluid damper but your statement was a little confusing considering the front seal runs on the damper, I would think runout, poor materials or hardness or too rough micro finish could cause problems.

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Could be the rust?

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Rob,
They test them. Roush Industries does this and I am sure the other teams can do testing. Each has a cycle time list for every part of the engine. Each part gets checked after a race and if okay it is run until its cycle life is up.

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Thanks Chris. I guess like Don says it will never fail in a street/drag car application.

I can see on the boat the different factors like the drive ,prop, the harmonics that give extra stress on them . I guess that's like the engine gear drive on boats.

Rob :drink:

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Rob, thanks for the interest.

Silicone Fluid

The inertia ring inside Fluidampr shears through a thin film of highly viscous silicone fluid to effectively control harmonic vibration at all engine speeds. But what is silicone fluid really like? Well, fluid is somewhat of a misnomer because it is really more like a gel. The silicone fluid used in Fluidampr is clear in color and is more than 45,000 times thicker (more viscous) than 30 weight motor oil.

Silicone fluid is a very good damping medium because it is relatively unaffected by temperature changes. Thus, it provides consistent damping in both winter and summer. The fluid does not harden or change viscosity if Fluidampr is not used for a period of time. The fluid is so durable that big rig, 18 wheeler truck engines are mostly all equipped with viscous fluid-type dampers.

The shere gaps between the inertia ring and the housing must be completly filled for the shereing action to work properly. Each damper is filled with a measured amount of fluid to insure that is is completely full.

Please visit our websites http://www.fluidampr.com and http://www.vibratechtvd.com

I am one of the Shareholders of the parent company HBP. www.hbpllc.com

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Don thanks for the Info.I guess that silicone fluid is a lot denser than I thought, kinda like my beer belly :rolleyes:

So are ya into boats? What ya got?


Rob :D

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Rob, I am near lake Erie I have a Sea Ray sundancer 290 and a 23 foot Larson ski boat, and a pair of Sea Doo GTX's. Now I am looking to add something like a 10-12m Trojan for fishing and scuba. With interest rates rising I expect it to be a buyers market for some time to come.

Re: TCI, ATI, Fluidampr...........
 

Cool. We need to get you into something alittle faster though. :D Yea I think the market is going to get worse. Even talking to some of the big engine builders out there they said it was a soft year. Our biz has even been off for the year.

Good luck

Rob :drink: