Spec class in SVL....
 

I'm just woundering with some of the talk of spec class racing....and how a lot of class's like F1 and F2 have gone away....the only class really left, outside of the big money race teams like SCL and SC......is SVL....its really the last inexpensive spec class left.... I tought there were around 8 to 10 SVL boats out in the fleet still....Is there a plan for next year....I know everytime I'm at Steve M shop, there always tweeking it to get it faster.....I thought most of the teams were east coast teams.....
I know we have talked about how the F1 and F2 Class's went the wrong way after the 525 was brought in...
But SVL is the one class that has been racing the same engines for the last 5 years....

It was good to see 5 SVL boats racing in Chattanooga even though there were in Class 4...and I understand some of them run Class 4 because of there weight and have bigger HP...then the 525...

But will this class be at last affordable class of the spec classes to remain in the Offshore....
Is there any talk to all meet up in some OPA races in 08....
Will SBI/APBA keep a class with only 1 or 2 boats in it
and will OSS be the only Org that has SVL......

With the Worlds right around the corner....they will be over before we know it and then its working on the 2008 season which personally....I think will host the biggest races in the last 5 years or so.....

Maybe bracket racing is the furture....or maybe SVL is the class that will bring back spec racing and bring back F1 or some class of spec racing for boats in the 26 to 30 foot range that don't want to race in Bracket racing....or maybe there will be spec racing with big class's and big P-Class's racing together.....

Either way....I think this sport is heading in a big direction....hope we keep as many racers interested till we find our way back to the big one.....

SVL is an Awesome class and I would hate to see it die. Its great to see that you dont need to buy a new boat every two years to be competitive in this class. 10 year old boats are just as fast or faster than new boats. Many people I have spoken to, would love to get into the class, but are afraid to pull the trigger because they are concerned about the future of the sport as well as the class. No one wants to spend 100k on a spec class SVL if they dont think the class will be around 3 years from now. I think SVL would be the best candidate class for a Nascar style race boat. How cool would it be to see 20 - 25 of them on the water at one time? With a big title sponsor of course. I also think Spec classes should be SVL and SCL only. Because they have been the strongest classes in recent history. SC OB has a good showing too, but interest seems to be dying because Merc isnt making the motors anymore. Ryan...Correct me if Im wrong.

Steve I agree....companys have already alocated there advertising budgets and sponsorship monies for 2008...
That is one of the reasons of bringing this subject up now...
if SVL is going to be the last affordable spec class to stay and grow...now is the time to find a way to get all the SVL to race on command ground.....

1. Is there really only 2 manufactures that really build a SVL
and is there any way to approach them in any kind of incentive to the racers and or new race boats...
I agree...it is truely the only spec class left that you can have a 10 year old boat and still be running up front and winning...thats what was good about F1....old boats running with the newer boats....

2. Running a set schedule is hudge to a sponsor with TV....
This is nothing against any other Org. just putting out some idea's out there...with OPA having a set schedule and TV and the lowest fee's to race and a race schedule that has 75% of there races in a 200 mile radius...it makes it easy to leave your boats in that area with security...

3. I also agree, that GM had a great sponsorship program...without getting into all the politics.....they did put up alot of money...not saying Mercury did not...they did alot also...but somethimes looking at the big picture is important...
Having a big name like GM sponsoring a series is hudge to teams going out and getting sponsrs for there team and also gives you a hudge outlet to go after in marketing...again this is not pointing fingures at anyone...just things to thing about for the furture...

I also agree...just like getting F1 to come back....racers are going to sit back and see were the class gose before they invest there money in a boat....thats why bringing this up now while there are still teams out ther racing in this class is easier then trying to start a whole new class over...

I think if the Manufactors keep ther same design and don't make a lot of changes to make there boats faster every year...this class can overcome the biggest problem we have in racing in spec class today...and that is your boat is not obsulete in a year or 2....

There are all kinds of ideas that should be thrown out there on this subject to see what could be done or is going to be done....but then the bottom line comes down to this...

It will be the teams that are currently racing in this class to make these desitions and make the right ones to keep this class running and to get it to grow...just like we talk about Orgs doing there part to help the racers get sponsorship....we as racers somethimes have to make desitions to help there class to grow and show other racers why they should get into there class....

I'll chime in since it was mentioned.....

Mercury still builds the powerheads and gearcases. You just can't buy a complete motor due to EPA. A brand new Stock boat costs about 150,000 - 200,000 to build. Unlike SVL if you don't have something that was built in the last 5 years winning would be hard to do. It is a very fun class to race and costs about $5,000.00 per race if you don't go crazy. With prize money and mercury contingency you can cover alot of costs by years end if you run well all season. I ran 9 races in 2006 on the same power heads. In 2007 I put new pistons & rings ($5,000) and ran 5 more races plus testing. If you "THROTTLE" the boat and not just pin it every race the motors are very reliable and can get a season out of the no problem. If anyone has any question about S class racing let me know. The are a couple of used boats for sale as well as a few new boats in the works.

Thanks for clearing that up Ryan.

A good example of spec racing is in the Stock class in Europe,
It is very competitive and Gary B told me you sometimes have 16 to 18 boats running against each other in a race...with big prize money....do you think there would be that type of prize money if there were 3 to 5 boats racing over there...I would think not....

Its just another reason to realize that only 5 boats in a class makes it hard to market....

If you take Bruces thoughts...and you get 20 to 25 SVL or any class for that reason....and you will have something big to market....and then comes the big money....not only in prize money....but then in team sponsorship

and lets remember the numbers we are talking about are not being pull out of our butts.....we all have been around and seen or have raced in those 20+ boat classes

Class 4 is the biggest class in the US right now....and I think the class 4, 5 and 6 have the biggest potental to grow to the 15 to 20 boat classes looking into 2008....

But it will be good if there were at least one spec class that stays together that a racer can get into under $150k for those racers that don't want to race in P-Class....

I think you mean "Watch the pennies and the pounds take care of themselves"

This year at OSS there was almost a different winner at every race, some races decided by a one second margin, alot of passing and a occassional bump and even a few spinouts. Spec racing is the way it will need to be to get 10-20 boats on the course. We are currently talking about two by two starts with the grid in the reverse of the national points thus making every race interesting not decided at turn one, hopefully catlite will consider this as well. With alittle effort we should have a minium of 6-8 boats running again next yearin svl (wild ride, typhoon, popeyes/imco, laveycraft, wild card, hometown, simply tossum? and some newbes so says the rumor mill). Bruce and anyone considering racing time is not our friend get off the couch and race!

Gino, my opinion is that yes opa has done a great job but it is also becoming obvious that as the prize money goes up and the show grows it is getting away from what it was to the guy who spends the most will win.....hell I guess we will soon have to put an 850 and a six drive on our boat for a shot at p4, and if that is what those racers want let them rip. Spec racing you can be well prepared but you cant buy a win. Spec racing will eventually be the future....just wether or not the planets align before our time has run out catlite will be huge someday.........Steve, hopefully that will happen before we are wheelchair racing. pm me an update on Gordo.

Vinny....thanks for the update on SVL...I think we need to keep some spec racing out there....thats why I started this post...I also think SCL will remain a big class...I think there are a good 15 big money teams out there that will always be around for that class....
Its good to here you guys are working on building the class so it dose not go away...
I think we all can agree...any SVL today can win...and again...I think a lot has to do that there has not been a lot of changes to the hulls....it dose not matter what year SVL you are runninng..you can win...OPA is bracket racing but had had SCL class racing....I don't know OSS's schedule for 2008....so I was just woundering...if you guys have thought of all getting together OOS SVL and SBI/APBA SVL and were going to do some races up North in 08...
I don't speak for OPA...but if you guys have 7 or 8 SVL and wanted to come up North, if you guys gave that as a option....

Gino, wouldn't rule it out, but we race where we race because of great tech staff that is constantly checking fuel,ecms,motors, gears etc. along with clean starts and this lays the ground work for competitive close racing.

I hear you....and I know OPA has there hands full already with inspections....but maybe something could be worked out were you guys summitt the inspection you want and maybe it could be handled....the tech in spec racing needs to be thorogh....but the more you guys get out there in big numbers the more teams will get inclided to jump in....
also it would be good to get Steve and Gary to come North...Its been a long time since they had to jorney up this way along with Bob M

Good thread Gino ! Nice posts Vinny. Inverted starts would be fun to watch.

Cool to see some dialog without bashing each other post after post after post.

We would love to run spec SVL with OPA. It would be really cool if they planned the starts so we could also run P4 and get a chance to race twice. The comment about having to put 850hp in a SVL to win 4 class is very true. We ran most the season and would have to say Simmons, Bruce, and our boat are fairly equal in set up. If things all stayed the same and other spec SVL's run 4 class with us it would be a great time with some good competition. However any SVL with more than 525hp shouldnt be running 4 class. These boats are fast and handle great more HP just kills the competition for alot of the older boats in 4 class. We love the big boat count in 4 class. We want to keep the 525 in the boat and run 4 class and some SVL races, but I love competition and want to win. Leaves us in a hard spot, if 4 class lets 800hp plus SVL's run we need to change the motor to be at the front. That blows our chance at running a spec SVL race also. If OPA runs A SVL spec class then our problem is solved.........or they limit HP in an SVL in 4class. Either way we will be racing with OPA all next season its a great time.

Scott
TEAM OCTANE 411

This is a great thread, and I agree with everything that Gino is saying. Spec racing is great racing, look at NASCAR.

I also like the starting idea being 2x2 as well. If you had enough boats you could expand that to a 3x3 (like Indy).

One thing that strikes me about racing the smaller boats is the oversized circuit that we race on. While a 5+ mile circuit is good for the big boats it takes the small ones to far away from the crowd.

Personally I would be all for shorter circuits and more laps, in an attempt to bring the racing closer to the fans. It would also make for better TV, the more turns the better the race viewing.

The biggest issue the sport faces is a following. The fans come first, then the sponsors. Not the other way around, thus making the race more fan friendly is key. Why do you thing stock car racing is so huge?

The second biggest issue facing it is the barrier to entry. We are talking about $150k boats and a race weekend budget of $3-5k. For that amount of money you could run a regional NASCAR series, attract sponsors and win real money. Why would a racing team owner get involved with offshore racing? Until we can change that offshore racing will remain a hobby for the upper middle class who likes boats.

When I got into offshore racing in 2003, it was because I saw an opportunity. The APBA was doing all the right things to get the sport recognized by the general public (GM, Speedchannel, etc), but all the evaporated (I will leave the political commentary out). That change set the sport back many many years. For me it was very disheartening, we had been negotiating with a major financial institution to fund an SVL team. When the TV went away, so did their interest. Sorry the WaterChannel did not quite do it for them. Today that same company's name is found on IRL cars and Tour De'France teams. I had them in their infancy and lost them.

I hope Gino is right and the sport is on the rise again. We are going to bring the bat boat back in 2008 after a 3 year layoff (divorce sucks, but I kept the boat) and look forward to a bright future. If SVL racing takes a step and we can compete on the West Coast, there is no doubt we would be willing to take the step up.

Rick

Rick agree....I think there maybe something to the shorter couse for smaller boats....

In Tenn was a great example....the skiffs can run up to 80 mph...and there course is very short...but we all could see the whole race....

Smitty was telling me in Europe they have a short leg and a long leg that you get to choose while your racing...

Would it be that hard to set up 2 more turn bouys inside the straight aways for the smallet boat to run that course...

in Cambridge the racing was very close in the 1st 5 laps or so....and a big part of it was the course was only 3 mile long...

Since we all can agree that a race is really won in the first 30 miles or so in smaller boats.....would it be better to run 2 heats....draw for positions and race 25 to 30 miles....and then line back up for the second start based on your first finish....with the last place boat on the inside and the 1st place boat on the outside...this way all the boats have a chance of winning and the boats would not be so spread out on the course..... your not talking about a lot of down time...becasue for 1 the boats will all still be fairly close in running...and as soon as the last place boat finishes...race control can call out each boats possition and get lined backed up and take the green for the second start...

We all have heard fans say who's winning, becasue once the boats get spread out it turns out to just boats passing in front of them ever 15 to 30 seconds...well this way the boats would always be in a pack by the finish line....

You are on to something. :D

I like the heat race format and the side by side starting.

The attaction of offshore is the changing water (big) conditions, I see a couple of opportunities with POPRA where the venues would allow this. I think I am still on the board, maybe I should talk to Cooper.

How much fun would short track offshore racing be in a bat boat.

When I look at the proposed POPRA 2008 schedule, Havasu, San Diego, LOTO and Vegas would be great venues to try and run this format.

I am thinking a 2-2.5 mi circuit with 10 laps for the first heat and 15 for the second. You could use IKF (karting) scoring standards to decide the winner. Just think of the passing that you would see during the race.

Rick