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- - Mercury 1200 / 1025 push button (http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forum...ad.php?t=11431)

BraceYourself 10-28-2009 05:46 AM

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Mercury 1200 / 1025 push button

Heard that Mercury is offering the 1200hp package that if you push switch on the dash it allows the engine to detune to 1025hp.

No changing pulleys and you can go to poker run and run race gas and for other times just push the button and run 89 octane.

Sounds awesome and I can't believe there hasn't been more publicity on this.

MattBMiller 10-28-2009 06:17 AM

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Pretty good idea

Sean H 10-28-2009 06:19 AM

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you actually have two ecu's, you have to unplug one and plug into the other.

Trim'd Up 10-28-2009 06:36 AM

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Pretty cool. If it is only in the ECM it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to come up with a push button setup.

Chris 10-28-2009 06:49 AM

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It's basically a limp-home mode. If you're running and can't find race gas to make it back. To switch down is easy- the 1025 will run on 89 octane mixed in. To go back to 1200, you have to drain the tanks and purge the fuel system. You don't have to get every drop, but you have to get them pretty much out of 89

Sean H 10-28-2009 06:55 AM

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It's not really a limp home mode, it is the 1025 ecu that basically dumps even more boost due to the 1200 pulleys. You could run it that way every weekend if you wanted.

Guys have been switching ecu's on these engines for awhile now, its not that uncommon.

Wobble 10-28-2009 07:00 AM

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Been doing the same thing with nitrous buttons for years:sifone:

Airpacker 10-28-2009 07:02 AM

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean H (Post 353457)
you actually have two ecu's, you have to unplug one and plug into the other.
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Why would they need two controllers? Simple software is all thats necessary to have dual fuel and ignition maps. The memory space required to house dual maps would be way cheaper to produce and utilize than the cost of a complete second ECU.
The switch is nothing more than a way of communicating to the ECU which map is to be used.
No doubt, when the lower power setting is selected, the ECU will look real close at the knock sensors to make sure the owner didn't make a very costly mistake as well.

Sean H 10-28-2009 07:07 AM

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The Mercury ecu has the ability to hold multiple maps, I don't know why they made it two ecu's, but that is the way it is. Like I said, Mercury is basically only offering from the factory what customers were already doing.

Chris 10-28-2009 07:11 AM

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean H (Post 353506)
It's not really a limp home mode, it is the 1025 ecu that basically dumps even more boost due to the 1200 pulleys. You could run it that way every weekend if you wanted.

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I know there are two ECU's.

The point being that switch over back to 1200 is not an easy or inexpensive process. And done inproperly can result in serious damage. Thus it's not a flick-the-switch power change thing. Yes, you could run them all year with 89 octane and use race gas that once or twice at a run or something. But that guy is probabaly a 1075 customer anyway.

As far as dual ECU, Kevin Skiba from Merc Racing explained to me that the cost to re-engineer a completely different ECU wasn't warranted by the small volume they expected from the units. He also said that making it a flip-of-the-switch might lead someone to take the other elements of the change-over lightly and run in 1200 mode without a proper fuel changeover.

Davidmnc 10-28-2009 07:23 AM

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris (Post 353526)
I know there are two ECU's.

The point being that switch over back to 1200 is not an easy or inexpensive process. And done inproperly can result in serious damage. Thus it's not a flick-the-switch power change thing. Yes, you could run them all year with 89 octane and use race gas that once or twice at a run or something. But that guy is probabaly a 1075 customer anyway.

As far as dual ECU, Kevin Skiba from Merc Racing explained to me that the cost to re-engineer a completely different ECU wasn't warranted by the small volume they expected from the units. He also said that making it a flip-of-the-switch might lead someone to take the other elements of the change-over lightly and run in 1200 mode without a proper fuel changeover.
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What about having separate fuel tanks. One for 89 octane and one for racing fuel? Would that work? :huh:

Sean H 10-28-2009 07:26 AM

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris (Post 353526)
I know there are two ECU's.

The point being that switch over back to 1200 is not an easy or inexpensive process. And done inproperly can result in serious damage. Thus it's not a flick-the-switch power change thing. Yes, you could run them all year with 89 octane and use race gas that once or twice at a run or something. But that guy is probabaly a 1075 customer anyway.

As far as dual ECU, Kevin Skiba from Merc Racing explained to me that the cost to re-engineer a completely different ECU wasn't warranted by the small volume they expected from the units. He also said that making it a flip-of-the-switch might lead someone to take the other elements of the change-over lightly and run in 1200 mode without a proper fuel changeover.
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You are right, Merc did 2 ecu's because it was cheaper. They already had those parts and flashes done.

As far as expensive, it takes a few minutes to hook up a hose and pump out the tanks using the Merc fuel pump. Done it several times.

There are Mercs running around with multiple flashes on the same ecu.

Chris 10-28-2009 07:27 AM

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It would conceivably, but now you're carrying around all that weight and the space is an issue. There's only so many places to stick tanks on these things and 1200's gobble up the fuel. Getting 250 gallons onto an MTI 44 isn't easy. Getting space for 500 would probably be impossible. It would certainly be impossible to maintain good balance and weight distribution.

Chris 10-28-2009 07:33 AM

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean H (Post 353542)
.

As far as expensive, it takes a few minutes to hook up a hose and pump out the tanks using the Merc fuel pump. Done it several times.



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My comment was assuming you're paying someone to do this for you. Most people with 1200's in million-dollar boats are not doing their own stuff. It sounds easy, but fooling around with fuel and pumps and barrels and scratching $80K paint jobs and hauling fuel barrels and storage is probably outside what most of these owners have in mind. Hell, I don't even like putting fuel in my own vehicles- and smelling like it for the afternoon.

I don't know about pulling the tanks down with the in-tank pickups. None really reach the bottom and some are leaving a fair amount of fuel in the tank. Would you take that chance with $300K worth of motors?

Sean H 10-28-2009 07:40 AM

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The merc pumps arent in tank, they are external, I guess you would have to know where your pickup is at. In the race boat, the tank is dry when the pump runs out, of course we have a huge sump in the tank for that very reason.

Either way, yes, if you are paying somebody it would cost money. But what does a tank of 89 cost vs a tank of race fuel? If you bought these computers to save money, I would assume you may be the type of guy to unplug your own harness and fuel lines.

I would also think most swaps would happen when the tank was low or out. That would be the obvious time to do it. I would also like to see how often this option actually gets used.

The guys that do this now with 850/1025/1075/1200/1400 setups do it quite often, the harness actually starts to break since they aren't made to be unclipped that many times.

WFORob 10-28-2009 08:25 AM

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Aren't there sensors that are available that can determine octane (rather than pre-detonation)?

If so, rig one or two (for redundancy) of those into the fuel intake line, feed the data back to the ECU and have it adjust the mapping in real time. That'd be the slickest and most foolproof way of accomplishing something like this.



Hey Tony,

I found this on another site. HMMMMM. They might be able to switch it the other way and go from 850 to 1075. Nah.

Be safe down there, we will be at SEMA rooting for you.

pat W

Sean H

pat, its easy to check pulley size and fuel. its already done. Tony doesn't think you can tech these things, how long does it take to measure a pulley and test fuel? We already test fuel, so really, how long does it take to measure a pulley? Probably less time than to measure an illegal boat or tear apart illegal drives.

Like you said, go to Class 1 rules. Nobody even has to worry about it.

Sean H

also, when you pass out ECU's pre race, it really doesn't matter at all...

byrideroffshore

two maps in the same comp..Really surprise surprise...Pat Illeagal drives is that aimed at u...KEY WEST IS GOING TO BE REAL FUN...

Tom should b out at SEMA...Hes hauling alot cars out there...

Sean its simple..bring a plan..we will figure it out

poddy

I am sure they have the capability to change to single speed trans before Key West.

being dumb to TECH

.....if the concern over the EFI is the programming on the 850, can't ECU's be handed out to teams on the race weekend.....hand it back in after the race and they are tested

if the blower motors have more torque than the 750's ...give them more cu.in.'s to compensate....if they rebuild as often as claimed upping the cubes should not be a big issue

skaterdave

class one guys still run a crash box type trans - foward - neutral -reverse. NO multi-speeds or shiftable allowed. instead they have the ability to change gear ratios in the drop boxes for the shaft drives. so its a matter of removing a cover plate and swapping out two gears, which times about 10 -15 mins and gives you an almost unlimited number of ratios. where as with a #6 drive you basically need a complete set of drives for each individual set of gears, since it takes quite awhile to swap actual gear ratios in a #6 and you need special tools, you gotta split the case and drain the oil plus the time it takes just to remove the drive from the gimble.

ECU's- well who's going to be there to hand them out ? is mercury coming to be tech inspector for the two 850's. so how would this work if the 850's wanna race full-time with 750 boats? who controls the ECUs. how do you tech a computer controlled motor in this situtation. and who will bear the burden of costs for tech. almost any mechanically inclined person could tech a carburated engine, the ECU motors - not so much ???

i think the whole purpose of what tony's doing is to keep the 750 (510 motor) in place, since those teams already have $$$ invested in that engine program, why not leave it alone. let them drop down to 9000 lbs as per the what class 1 tried to do. and let me point out that theres a few people that have pointed the finger that the 750 engine package couldn't hang with the the class 930 hp/10k lb boats, which is true since if you read the rules C1 took the compression away from the N/A 510 and knocked it down from 12.5 to 10.5 to 1. that was one of the only ways the 510 made power, so that needs to be addressed.

FREEZE FRAME VIDEO

Sean I Will Have For you In Key West Freeze Frame From The Sunny Isles Race