Change the designations in the Outlaw Classes
 

I think that the Outlaw Performance Classes should be renamed the Sportsman Classes.Many other motorsports sanctioning bodies like NHRA,IHRA and CORR use the "Sportsman" name to differentiate these classes from the Pro Classes.The APBA actually started Divisional Sportsman Class racing in the eighties with the Sportsman A,B,C and D classes, but these classes eventually evolved into national classes.The current designations of P5-P1 dont look good on the boats and can create scoring problems as well as confuse fans.P5,P4,P3,P2,and P1 could become Sportsman A,B,C,D & E....my personal opinion is that A-1 looks alot better than P5-1.As far as PX, do away with it!Anyone agree or disagree?

I was also wondering what changes may be considered in the other classes.It looks like Super Vee,and Super Cat Light Outboard Triple and Twin seem to be dying.Less classes with more boats per class should be the goal at least for the Pro Classes.

I agree! The term "Sportsman" is a better term for what these classes really are. I would go one step further and NOT give "Sportsman" or "P" racers national points or TV time. There are guys hangging out in P class who should "step up" if they want a "National Championship" or TV time. Every other form of racing follows this format, why not boatracing? I also think that the letter designation looks horrible P5-14 etc. Why not designate the class with the number.
It would be nice to get some feedback from the powers that be, like the new APBA President?

BOB G.

Bob,
I agree with you that these classes,whatever they are called, should be racing for divisional points only.The final race of the year could called the "Sportsman Series Nationals" to be run in conjuction with the "Pro Series World Championships".As far as the designations go you could use 100-199 for class 1,200-299 for class 2 etc.....this is what they do in off road racing.
514 would look alot better than P5-14!

"The Next Great Motorsport" could follow the lead of other great motor sports on this one.

Have to disagree
 

Bob,

..to play 'devils-advocate' here...to follow what you're saying...the Carrabas boat s/b in F1, not "hanging-out" in P5, right??...

..and why is carrying points for a National Championship in P-class a bad thing??...so you only want the local boats to race in each locale, not have out of state teams travel to each site following the tour???

..so if my team worked to acquire some sponser money for a race in Ft.Myers next season, those sponsers, or my team doesn't deserve TV coverage..??

..I think you're picking the wrong fight here..

Marty

Marty,
I can understand your point of view regarding national points and TV coverage for these classes, what are views on the class designations....I think that 307 would look much better than P3-7 on your boat....especially if your trying to attract sponsors.If people want to keep the "Outlaw" name which is descriptive of the run what you brung format; why not call the classes Outlaw 1,2,3,4 & 5.Just my opinion.

Marty,

I know your playing 'devils advocate", I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, just trying to get "offshore", on the same page as other motorsports.
I would love to see 'Carrabbas', step up to F-1. The boat is F1 legal, and the "learning curve" is over after a year in P5. I would also like to see other P5 boats ie;'Wild Rose" step up.
This is a redudancy in classes, This would also put a few more boats in F1 to create more competition.
Like it or not, boats DO hang out in P class for easy wins. If offshore was set up as other motor sports, only the priemere classes would be on TV. Would you want to watch a car race on TV from Wall Stadium, or would you rather watch NASCAR?
Why is it (not directed at Marty) that boat racers dont want to race anyone?? If there isnt more than one boat in a class, how do you have a race?
After the Savannah race, an article in the local paper stated "APBA has more clases than the University of Georgia". 20 Classes in APBA is just too much.
I know you disagree, but thats whats great about this forum-we can all express our opinions.;)
By the way how is your boat coming along!

BOB G.:D

apba did a great thng this year and lowered the costs for local racers and p classes. i encourage the hell out of that since i am a local racer. i do see numbers in some classes diminishing. i would liek to see the dwindling classes restructured to help support the popular classes in order to help the sport grow. but the intent of the p classes is to offer an affordable way for the local guys to get in. sometimes it's cheaper to race p class than to run a big poker run. i'd rather race and i'd like to see the p classes remain simple and open to new racers.

as far as i'm concerned, you can call the class anything you want.

Bob,

There's no doubt there are boats/teams in P that shouldn't be...

But you can't throw a blanket over the whole P series by saying there shouldn't be a Nat'l Championship..that's just not right..nor is it fair to declare the P series ineligible for TV coverage...

And I find it hard to swallow, that the P series is really a 'problem' area..the concerns should be with the "Pros" ...not we mere amateurs who are working hard to have some fun...

Marty

*we finally started on the motors last weekend..

:cool:

**and I'm with Dredgeking..I doesn't matter what you call it, or what the number system is..is A-E
or 100, 200, 300's any clearer than P1-P5??..just my opinion..;)

..and this all means nothing, since I'm in OPA/SBI and the discussion from your end is APBA!!:o ;) :rolleyes:

I'm done now..

Marty & Bob,
If you actually look at the current APBA Offshore rule book(page 176);the P Classes are supposed to be competing for divisional points only.....and the National Champions, with the right to use the number 1 for each P Class,is supposed to be a single race event at the World Championships.That makes more sennse to me.

Bob:

I've raced in Factory 1 , Factory 2 , Super Vee Light and now P3. I'm not hiding in the P - Classes for easy victories. When I ran in the other " Professional Classes" , I wound up with a full blown race boat with no cabin interior and then a canopy. I chose to run the P-Classes because I now have a boat with cabin interior , stereo, etc and we spend much more time in the boat doing what we love - Boating, plus my boat will smoke all of the other boats I've ever ran. BH

I think the p-class are great,it helps get some older boats off trailers .to race agan. I just got a old b boat. and p class help me race it.
yes i like to see a.b.c..d. class


A-class -----P-5
B-class------p-4


Mike

The main point of this thread was about changing the designations in the Outlaw Classes and not as much about national or divisional points etc..Class designations like Factory 1(F1) and Factory 2(F2) make sense due to single and twin engine factory type boats.....but Performance 1(P1) includes TWIN and TRIPLE engine cats and vee bottoms that race at the same time as the F1 boats; the other designations are confusing and just dont look good either.For example, an F1 is a smaller and slower boat than an F2.. yet P1 is a BIGGER and FASTER boat than a P2.P5 is mostly SINGLE engine boats; if anything P5 should P1!!!!!.Adding to the confusion is that most divisional events are largely made up of Outlaw P boats(APBA) and Divisional P boats(SBI/OPA)...at the OPA races last year, some people were overheard saying why do most of the boats have P's on them.Replace P5 with A,P4 with B,P3 with C,P2 with D, and P1 with E.This makes more sense and provides seperation from F1 and F2 and just looks a whole lot better in my opinion.

Mike,
This sugeestion was based on the assumption that the A & B Classes are going to be merged into the bracket classes.There are only a couple of A & B boats still running mostly in The Great Lakes Series.

national points
 

apba voted before the cleveland race to award national points as well as making that race a north east divisional race. fyi

P-classes
 

T.V. for P classes? Really now, there is barely enough time for the larger classes to be shown. Having 5 P classes is most confusing, and yes there are way to many classes in offshore in general. But that is a way for everyone to find a class that they can win in. If you only have two boats in a class, its a 50/50 chance you'll win. And there needs to be some kind of policing of the p classes. I ran my 24 Skater in two p-3 classes this year. The guys I raced against averaged 81 while the super stock (110 mile an hour boats) averaged 83! Hmmm. My old 32 skater that my dad and I raced and won many races and championships in Modified and Open and set up correctly had a top speed of 120. I heard that the new owner raced in p-2. Come on, what a joke. Alot of these new classes were formed out of what used to be the old divisional classes. Go back to the L class for rookies and guys with shallow pockets. Guys with the big bucks, and with nice sponsors should move up and race a larger class. My .02

Agitator,
just curious was this the class they put you in, ive seen Ryan Beckly's boat placed in P-2, what is the difference in boats ??

?
 

Agitator:

What 2 races did you race in this year? Just curious. BH

BH- I know he raced Zoli's boat in Savanah, they blew by me like time was standing still. My middle motor popped the jackplate apart- we where lucky to bring the boat in with all three motors.
Steve :cool:

Steve:

I was just curious on Agitator running P3. We ran all but 2 races in APBA and never saw him. We missed Cape Cod and Cleveland(he could of ran divisional races). We need competition in the class - so just wondering -BH

Hollis
Agitator raced in 2 SBI races in P3. He ran Deerfield and North Carolina.

Thanks Ryan for picking up my slack.
 

Yes I raced SBI with my boat a 24 skater with old 200's and it honestly only does maybe 90 on a good day. But my Dads old 32 Skater with old small block Modified class motors, which we won many championships in, does not belong racing against Ryan in his 24. Totally a differnt potential in the two boats.

Hey Steve, will you be bringing Money Shot to Key West? I'll be in High Risk. Should be some good racing if everyone shows up.
Hope to see you there.

BH- My 24 is retired. Little skaters can't compete against big V's. And my pocket book can't aford to fix it everytime I try:( I was talking to Ryan, If we can get other 24's interested making just a small cat outboard class, like old s class. But then again we really don't need anymore classes to confuse things.