GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

GREAT LAKES SILVER CUP SERIES Offshore Powerboat Racing at its best! P.O. Box 7221
501C3 - A not for profit corporation Eastlake, Ohio 44097-7221
Phone: 440-951-0352 Fax: 440-951-4163
Website: www.silvercupseries.com Email: [email protected]



January 10, 2005

PRESS ALERT FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

GLSCS 2005 Annual Meeting in Pittsburgh, PA

The first 2005 Annual Membership meeting of the Great Lakes Silver Cup Series was held on Saturday, January 8th Downtown Pittsburgh, PA Hilton. Though winter storms in the Great Lakes and the East Coast, made travel difficult, the meeting was attended by a number of Race Producers, Racers and Officials of the GLSCS; and much was accomplished.

A comprehensive review of the 2004 Offshore Racing Season by the Officials and the Executive Board detailed a largely successful year in terms of prize monies paid out and financial assistance to our race sites; both of which showed the largest dollar amount in the History of the GLSCS. Our Medical and Safety report indicated only minor incidents at two races which resulted in no medical injuries and minimal equipment damage. Lower boats counts had percentages consistent with other sanctioning bodies in 2004 and largely reflect changes in the economy.

The Racers and Officials discussed changes to the current class and rule structure in an effort to take into consideration many of the great ideas that have been offered by racers over the past year on this subject. After much deliberation, the following class rules were suggested, that we use a combination of average lap speed and GPS break out speed in assessing penalties. The break out speed would represent 4% of the top average lap speed allowed for the class (rounded to the nearest whole number). Penalties would be assessed based on a racer either going over the maximum average lap speed for the class or going over the break out speed; both would follow our current penalty structure of a time penalty of 1 minute for each mph over for the first three mph over either (for the first occurrence, the second occurrence would result in the penalty being multiplied by two) if either the average lap speed or breakout speed was exceeded by over 3 mph the boat would not be given any points and moved up to the next class for the next race. If a time penalty was assessed three times in a season, the boat in question would forfeit their points and be moved to the next class up). It was also decided that the Referee and Technical Inspectors would assist the teams in assign the boat to the correct class by using standard industry methods of calculation based on weight, horsepower, gear ratios, prop size and rev limit formulas.
Performance 5 60 – 70 mph average lap speed 73 mph Break Out Speed Single Engine 24’ to 29’ in length Cat or Vee
Performance 4 70 – 80 mph average lap speed 83 mph Break Out Speed Single or Twin Engine 24’ minimum length Cat or Vee
Performance 3 80 – 90 mph average lap speed 94 mph Break Out Speed Single or Twin Engine 27’ minimum length Cat or Vee
Performance 2 90 – 100 mph average lap speed 104 mph Break Out Speed Single or Twin Engine 30’ minimum length Cat or Vee
Performance 1 100-110 mph average lap speed 115 mph Break Out Speed Single or Twin Engine 30’ minimum length Cat or Vee Full Canopy with Restraints Req.

The continued offering of other classes including Factory 1 and 2 were discussed and it was agreed that the GLSCS is willing to speak with representatives for these classes and offer them in 2005 if they can establish rules and a minimum registrant base for the classes.

2004 saw the cooperation of the GLSCS and OSS on two race events. We look forward to expanding this cooperation over more events and including our fellow racers from the East Coast, the members of OPA. We feel that the three groups have very similar goals and that this cooperation allows us to each retain our individual members needs while increasing the exposure and enhancing the Offshore Racing experience for the racers, the sponsors and our fans.

Again, the following represents the suggestions that were discussed in Pittsburgh. We hope that these ideas can serve as a starting point for future discussions amongst not only the members of not only the GLSCS, but all parties interested in furthering the sport of Offshore Racing.

Executive and Advisory Board of the GLSCS

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

Performance 5 60 – 70 mph average lap speed 73 mph Break Out Speed Single Engine 24’ to 29’ in length Cat or Vee

According to this, it appears that the GLSCS has just thrown me out, and APBA has invited me in. I would sure like to know who was the woosie who decided to impose limits on length and number of engines for P5.

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

Why can't everyone run the same rules :mad: ?

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

These are only proposed changes discussed by the advisory board and racers presant at the Pittsburg meeting. They will be discussed and voted on by the racers. If you have an indea put it out there so we can put it up for discussion and vote.

Andrew Bloom
GLSCS Chairman

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

My Idea is only that everyone get on the same page so we can race where we want.
Right now, the way the rules are in all sanctioning bodies, I can only be competative in APBA. I really enjoyed the SBI races I did last year but they wiped out my boat with there latest rule changes and I wanted to race one race on the Great Lakes this year and your proposed rule changes render and APBA boat uncompetative (unless your a sandbagger)

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

It's good to hear that it's not exactly set in stone yet. One question, when P5 rules are voted on, does everyone get to vote on that, or just P5 racers?

If this new rules stands as is after the vote (my guess is, it will), what class can I race in?
My boat is 37', 11,000 lbs. and tops out at 71 MPH (not exctly sure because the new motors are still at the engine shop).

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

37' and 11,000 lbs does not belong in P-5 or P-4.
I will go back to my original statement. Build boats for classes not classes for boats.
If your boat doesn't fit into a particular class, build a boat to fit a particular class.
No offense.

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I agree with your statement, in Factory racing and up. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Outlaw classes were designed to get boaters involved in racing.

It's not like I bought this boat so that I could race P5. And I surely am not going to sell it to buy a boat that will fit in P5, just because the rules won't allow it. It's about wanting to get into racing. This is what I have. If I use it and try racing and I like it, then it would be more inclined to sell it and get a FII boat or something.

That's what an entry level class is supposed to be about. The problem with P5, is that people ARE building boats for Outlaw classes. Because they have no incentive to leave Outlaw and get into Factory I or II.

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Regarding some history here on P-5 length and engine limitations ---- There indeed have been restrictions on P5 since 2003.

Up until 2003, none of the racing organizations had any size/engine limits on any of the classes. In 2002, however, my team (Erie Stinger) along with another GLSCS team (Offshoregasm) showed up to race in the GLSCS with a 39 Chris Craft Stinger and a 38 Cigarette Top Gun, respectively. While both of these boats fell into the accepted speed bracket, lots of other P5 teams who were racing in APBA, SBI, and OPA were quite upset about the advantage that these (2) boats would have under rough water race conditions, and as such, in 2003 the length and engine limitations were placed on the P5 classes in APBA (I believe they may have been placed in SBI and OPA as well, but I'm not sure). Both of the teams that were running were grandfathered in the GLSCS only as long as they continued to race in the series. This did not apply to APBA, SBI, OPA, POPRA, or any other series. GLSCS did not have this limitation for 2004, but since Offshoregasm upgraded the 38 Top Gun and Erie Stinger no longer races, you have to give the GLSCS credit for attempting to bring their rules into some form of conformance with the other sanctioning bodies. After being at Cape Cod and watching Key West this year, the rough water advantage is real. I don't now if APBA has let the length and/or number of engines off the books for 2005, but I'm sure that most of the current P5 racers will once again make their voices heard if it has been removed.

This isn't going to help you out with your 37 Scarab, but no matter what sanctioning body that you may choose to race in, you are going to have to deal with these restrictions.

Similarity of rules between bodies always is a hot topic on this board - and it would appear that this is what is happening.

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

I couldn't agree more with you. Similarity is definately the key. In fact, in a smaller organization like GLSCS, they should be following the big guys, like APBA.

APBA 2005 Technical Rules
http://www.apbaoffshoreracing.com/do...nicalRules.pdf

Page 44... notice, no restriction on length for P5 (as opposed to the 2004 rules).

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

That sums it up pretty well.

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

What's curious is that the 2004 GLSCS rules do not have a restriction on length. And I don't think there were any bigger boats running GLSCS last year. So what invoked this new rule? Was it my inquisition a few months back. When I contacted GLSCS and informed them that I was plannig on racing P5 with my 37' baja?
Hmmm...

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

We had a similar issue, last year in OPA, with regard to a gentleman, who was putting together a 38 foot boat. The boat was not ready yet, but he was concerned that the power he was currently running, would not be competitive in P-4 and wanted to race P-5.

Our reponse to him was simple. If you are just looking to break into racing to see if you like it, Enter your boat in P-4. You most likely, will not win, unless everyone else breaks and you dont (very possible). However, you will get the feel for racing. At that point, you can decide if it is worth your time and money to put bigger power in your current boat, or look to buy a turn key race boat. The rules are not going to please everyone. But they cannot be constantly changed to accomadate boats.

There is no way, in my opinion, a 37 foot boat should be allowed in P-5 regardless of its top speed.

Some people may not have a problem with it, but I feel it should be left up to a vote of current P-5- race teams.

Good luck

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

P5 is supposed to be run what you brung. Not run what you brung as long as its the right size. I have no problem with a guy trying to get a taste of racing and bringing out his 37 ft pleasure boat for a go. If you build a boat to specifically race P5, youve got issues :eek: I race my 24 ft full cabin Pantera, drive and throttle myself, and take the family out to the Island when I am not racing. If I could afford to upgrade or build a boat to race only, it wouldn't be for P Class. I have no problem with any size boat racing in P5 as long as there not sandbagging.
I like the prop calcs that SBI uses combined with the GPS system of APBA and thats it.
Sincerely
"the Giant Killer" :drink:

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

The rules are not made by the board of the GLSCS. THey are made by the racers. If the racers would like to race their 24' boat against an aircraft carrier that is fine. But I guarantee their will be one racer who disagrees with it. The rules are voted on by the races and will be for 2005. If we made a class for each boat that could not be competitive in a class or was between the limits of two classes we would then have double or triple the classes we currently have. The object is to make it fair and competitive for the majority to come and race. Our goal is to make our rule similar to other groups such as OPA, SBI or APBA and we are striving for that. The racers need to step up and voice their opinion now. Because if you wait until it is to late then it is your own fault.

Andrew Bloom
GLSCS Chairman

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

Scott,

I disagree

P-5 Size limits were put into place to keep it fair for the smaller boats. If you want to run the hell out of your 24 in big water, thats awesome. But how long will you continue to do it, if you knew you had no chance of winning against a 37 footer in big water?

I understand that its all about having fun. But some people take racing more seriously and care if they win. I assume your next reponse will be to step up to either P-4 or a super series class. My answer to you would be the same as your answer to others. I cant afford to step up right now. If I could, I would.

If 24 and 26 footers have a tough time against 28s. How do you think they would do aganst a 37?

I guarantee that Most, if not all P-5 teams would vote NO on a 37 running in P-5.

Before you know it all the P-4 boats will be stepping down to P-5. The line needs to be drawn somewhere and I believe it should remain as is.

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

With the APBA schedule, I think big water won't be much of an issue :drink:
Seeing where OPA races it is much more of an issue.
Trust me,I race to win every time out and I have much more of an issue with top speed, than size. I would vote yes to letting him race P5 assuming prop calcs were done coupled with GPS. When your talking about true top end speed being 70, I don't feel size matters unless it gets over 3 ft. Just my opinion.

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Bruce,
I hear what you are saying. And I hope to god my boat runs 78 - 82 MPH in perfect water conditions. Then I could run P4, and everyone would be happy (everyone in P5). But it won't!!! It weights 11,000 # and it's 16 years old. I understand the competition thing, but what if everyone in P4 had a 34 foot boat, and I joined on with a 45 foot boat. Then the P4 guys would whine too.

One thing I do believe. I believe that GLSCS needs me a hell of a lot more than I need them.
If they keep turning away potential racers, there won't be any GLSCS to worry about.
GLSCS (or any racing association) should be welcoming new racers with open arms. Not posting red stickers on thier foreheads as they walk through the door.

Bottom line. When you vote, consider what you might be loosing, not what you will be gaining. Because I don't think the racing community can afford anymore losses. I guarantee you, if I join on with the GLSCS, there won't be any regrets. I won't be sandbagging, and I won't let anyone hate me for what I do. I will do my best to have fun, and make friends... I just want a chance to race.

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

With all said, I appreciate your input. And I , personally will take it into consideration when speaking with the rest of the fleet. I dont think anyone wants to send a race boat home, including myself. I also understand that boat count is low. But hopefully, that will improve as the season comes near.

stay tuned

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

If that last statement sounded harsh, I didn't mean it to. The point I wanted to get across is that I want to race, in an apropriate class, make friends, have fun, and experience the high point of my life. I don't want to steal the P5 class. That's not my intention.

And yes, I will qualify the boat running as fast as I can get it to go, but there's no way I am going to run a P4 class when the P5 boats are faster than me. It just doesn't make sense. Then I might as well just make a donation to the association and leave the boat at home. It sure won't do me any good to run around 10 MPH slower than everyone else. And it sure won't be very interresting for the fans.

But what woud be interresting for the fans, is to watch a 24' Panterra squash all over a 37' Baja. I would hate to be the victim, but either way the fans would love it!!!

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

I absolutely support limitations on lenght, # of engines, and would also support prop pitch and RPM limitations, which is sort of done when speed is calculated. If you want to confuse a fan just park a 24' P5 boat next to a 37' P5 boat. The classes have to be narrowed down according to factors other than just speed.
Of prime concern is that the various organizations continue to have different rules. If there is one thing that we need it is one set of rules. Or at least very similiar rules. Threads like this come up far too often. When are the governing bodies going to listen. They claim they do but I doubt it. For instance OPA has a 28' lenght limitation for P5, GLSCS just published a 29' limit, APBA did away with their limit, and SBI has a 32' limit. Then there is the problem of determining the class speeds and the penalties for exceeding same. Unify the rules and the number of boats will grow.

Scoundroul,

With all due respect I thought you stated that you were only interested in racing Buffalo. Why the concern with GLSCS lenght limitations? By the way, I raced Buffalo the last time they raced there (2001). It's a great site. On the Sunday of the race the water was breaking over the seawall and the races were cancelled.

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

Hey Guys,

I have just received an answer from APBA with regard to the P-5 class size limitation, and it was an oversight on their part. The rule will remain the same as last year. Meaning 28 feet and under single or twin.

QUOTE FROM MEMO

"Hey guys, I have spoken to Bob about this and this is an oversight on our part, the Performance rules should not have changed from what they were last year. We were researching some different ideas and decided to remain as we have been. The wording should have been changed back. I'll make the corrections soon."

"Pop"

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

Bruce,

Just got the same info in a reply from Jim Poplin to an email I wrote on 1/9.

Cig3,

Now if GLSCS limits the P5 lenght to 28', three organizations would at least have the same lenght requirements. OPA, APBA, and GLSCS (?).

Scoundroul,

Even if you have to run P4 and your boat will get about 75 mph you'll still have a blast. Give it a shot for a season, meet the people and get an idea of everything that goes with racing.

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

I am curious, when it comes to P class racing is the issue boat size or number of engines?

Personally I have more of an issue with the number of engines as it does provide an advantage on re-entry. There is no way to get around it, while the top speed might be the same, the extra tourque provided by that second engine is a real advantage.

What I would hate to see in the P4 and P5 class is the need for a 32+ foot boat with twins to be competitive. I know all of these posts are in relation to P5, but a similar issue exists with P4 as well.

It is correct, in flat water, our little boat can run with and out corner a bigger boat with two engines running the same speed, but how often is that the case? The last time I checked this was offshore racing, not river racing.

When reading these rules, I do like the P4 Avg speed with a breakout slightly higher. When I read that I thought that was great for F1 boats that are not going to change the engines to 496.

Rick-

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

One other thing, I think there should be "promoters" discretion on the classification of boats.

A good example of this would be POPRA. When a boat shows up to race, the POPRA race organizers will take a good look at the boat, racer, etc when classifing the boat.

In 2003, Vern showed up with his 42' Apache with twin 14-71 blown motors, with P4-11. Now Vern was being honest as in testing that day the best he ran was 75 mph. So based on the rules, Vern was a P4. When Bob Teague looked at the sitution, he asked Vern to move up to P3, basing this on the fact that if the water turned snotty (which is can do at this race), none of the other P4 boats (my batboat, a 35 Fountain with twin 502's and a 25 Daytona with a 525 efi), would be in the game at all.

Vern (like a true competitor) agreed, although he stated that the best he had done all day was 75.

On race day the water did not come up, Vern took 2nd in P3, he would have been 4th in P4 that day. So in the end, he would not have won either class, but had the water turned bad, he probably would have easily won P3. I think Bob Teague did the right thing, it was not so much a statement about Vern, but the rest of us. Had he run P4 and the water turned snotty, we would had given it everything to beaten him, to the point of running over our heads. Knowing that boat would not win either class on a smooth water day, it was a smart move to make him a P3 boat in the event the water turned rough.

Rick

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

" I have proxy votes for many of the GLSCS teams. Hopefully the Board will take the time to hear the wishes of the club members." Mark Matthews

Mark, as you can see, as we had hoped, discussions have begun regarding some of the potential new rules that were discussed at the Pittsburgh meeting. Both Ed Smith, Vice Chairman of the GLSCS and myself have been asking you for the Proxy votes that you mentioned above. We are trying to finish up the minutes of the Pittsburgh meeting (35+ pages) and we would like to process your motion and proxy votes that you have. Could you please let us know when they will be available.

Andrew Bloom GLSCS Chairman

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

raynman, I agree with you, keep it consistent. But I don't think I will be running P4. I don't think you understand. My boat ran 61 MPH last summer. I have dumped around $15K in the blown up motors this winter, and I will be begging to get 70 MPH out of it. Only a water test will tell, but if what I am reading about the "oversight" in APBA rules is true, and GLSCS decides to vote in the size limitation, then I will be on the bow of my boat, just outside to patrol boats, watching you guys run around in circles.

Would you run a 70 MPH boat in P4?

With all these restrictions, I wonder why they have Outlaw classes. If you want restrictions, race Factory class, or Nascar. Sounds to me we need a class (maybe call it PT) for the little guys doin' 70 MPH.

I just don't understand. I guess that's because I have never been out there yet. But, that's why they have the racers vote on it. Because they are the one's that have the experience to know better.

Yes, I want to run 1 race in Buffalo with APBA, but GLSCS run in Cleveland, and I would like that possible option too.

Re: GLSCS 2005 Press Release
 

Might as well run a World War II PT boat in P5 then.It only runs 60.