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Uncle Dave 12-20-2009 01:29 PM

Interior Picts
 
5 Attachment(s)
TV - Here are some pict of the interior of my 20.8 Sebring.

This was done three years ago By Ross at designer marine/Lavey.

Have you thought about external steering?

note : There is a strange compression artifact from my camera that causes the dash to look funky in some areas, these areas are smooth as a babys bottom.


UD

Uncle Dave 12-20-2009 01:48 PM

Another Thing....
 
1 Attachment(s)
Another thing Twisted V - is steering.

Your rig will not steer if you cross about 4-450HP barrier. The stock steering will not be able to overcome the water passing across the skeg and will blow steering fluid past the seals.

Do this too much and the steering will blow at speed and immediately and violently slam to the left or right - this will ruin your weekend.



UD

twistedvelocity 12-23-2009 12:42 AM

Once I get the boat all fixed up and in the water the next thing will be external steering before I do an engine upgrade.
Is this thread only for us?
I really gotta figure out how fast I would like to go too.

Uncle Dave 12-23-2009 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3010691)
Once I get the boat all fixed up and in the water the next thing will be external steering before I do an engine upgrade.
Is this thread only for us?
I really gotta figure out how fast I would like to go too.

This is "your thread" boss.

What are you doing now with what power and how does the boat like it?

What prop are you turning and what RPM?

UD

twistedvelocity 12-24-2009 03:25 AM

She hasn't hit the water let.
It has a stock 350 mag.
from what I have read it should run close to 60.
I'm switching from the alpha to a bravo and im guessing that will slow me up alittle. The bravo I picked up came with a 23 mirage prop so ill be trying that one out first

twistedvelocity 12-27-2009 01:38 AM

Were you happy with the speed you got out of the sebring or would you have liked to get more?

Uncle Dave 12-30-2009 09:44 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3012662)
Were you happy with the speed you got out of the sebring or would you have liked to get more?


Been out at Glamis hitting the sand dunes since Sunday.......


Yes and No, - depends on the engine - Ill try to explain.

Sort of - I got mid 80's out of the original b& M supercharged 383 - then I blew it up. I estimated it was making about 400HP.

Not happy - I rebuilt it with better and more aggressive parts and cam profile and it made 450 HP on the dyno when precisioned speed in orange county ran it. I got a few more MPH out of it maybe 87 - then blew it up in about a season and a half.

Moderately Happy- Then I put a 454 that made about 500HP I built in it and got right at 90, and I started on a project 406.

Very happy - I finished the 406 it dynod at about 500HP with about 500LB ft with a flat tappett solid cam, and about 550/500 with a hydraulic roller but at higher RPM, and I learned al about rev limiters and rev control with a hydraulic roller and that flat tappett deals when cammed properly are inherently self limiting and went back to the flat tappett setup.

I pulled and sold the 454 to a friend I sold my advantage jet boat to- and put in all the trick stuff you see now and got about 94 out of it when it was fresh.

I was happy with 94.

Its now back down to mid to high 80's after years of holding my foot to the floor for hours at a time, and in need of a rebuild.



UD

twistedvelocity 12-30-2009 10:13 PM

What kind of parts did you use in the bottom end again?

Uncle Dave 12-31-2009 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3014913)
What kind of parts did you use in the bottom end again?


Im pretty sure in the 406 I used a lunati crank and stock length rods and I balanced it with Ross pistons and Childs and Albert ZGS rings.

Id have to go check the build sheet again, but Im pretty sure thats what I used.

Its been a rock solid engine for about a decade.

UD

twistedvelocity 12-31-2009 12:12 PM

When it comes time I am thinking I would like to do a 427 stroker. I gotta figure out how fast I want to go

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015202)
When it comes time I am thinking I would like to do a 427 stroker. I gotta figure out how fast I want to go

Once you have your budget figured out everything goes backwards from that number.

Do you have some parts already?
Why not the largest CI small block you can start with?

(like a 454 short block with your choice of cam, and intake, some good heads and a good exhaust)

Unless you are doing a 383 your existing SB parts aside from the accessories wont take you far.

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 01:42 PM

I want to keep my stock engine complete and run it at first and build another on the side and keep the stock engine as a back up once I get a new one done. 454 is a possibilty I am alittle partial to the 427 for some reason. I woudl have to do alittle research. I know stroking too far sometimes can be bad. The engine geometry is bad and the engines are usually short lived.

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015802)
I want to keep my stock engine complete and run it at first and build another on the side and keep the stock engine as a back up once I get a new one done. 454 is a possibility I am alittle partial to the 427 for some reason. I would have to do little research. I know stroking too far sometimes can be bad. The engine geometry is bad and the engines are usually short lived.

When you say 427 do you mean a BB 427 or a SB 427?

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 01:59 PM

A sb 427
A blower would be sweet. But I don't think id need it.
I wonder if there is a speed where its just too much for the boat

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 02:01 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015810)
A sb 427

Whats your pet part combination?

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 02:08 PM

I think I was editing well you were typing but I added thsi too.

A blower would be sweet. But I don't think id need it.
I wonder if there is a speed where its just too much for the boat

I want to use a scat rotating assembly all forged. probably afr heads. comp cams stainless steal rockers. probably a edelbrock victor single plane intake. I was thinking of calling cnc motorsports and see what they could do.
Do you think iconel valves shoudl be used on both the intake and exhaust? It sounds like they should be on the exhaust side forsure.

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 02:19 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015814)
I think I was editing well you were typing but I added thsi too.

A blower would be sweet. But I don't think id need it.
I wonder if there is a speed where its just too much for the boat

I want to use a scat rotating assembly all forged. probably afr heads. comp cams stainless steal rockers. probably a edelbrock victor single plane intake. I was thinking of calling cnc motorsports and see what they could do.
Do you think iconel valves shoudl be used on both the intake and exhaust? It sounds like they should be on the exhaust side forsure.

HOw much can the hull take, I dont know that boat, how much hook and rocker in the hull?
How high is the x dimension?
Didnt you say you had an alpha?
Hows it made?

Well..... there is a sanity limit imposed by your steering now, and thats about 75-80- any faster than that and you cant steer and risk blowout if you try.

Inconell on exhaust. But in an NA config Ive never had problem with good SS valves only. Blower yes. (my experience, but for a moderate uplift why not?)

Make sure the guys at CNC spec a cam that generates a decent amount of vacuum at idle which the big hydraulics do not, or you will be killing it all the time.

UD

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 02:25 PM

IF you are going NA an engine built like an endurance auto racer will be just what you need.

This is a setup identical to a Marine setup with the exception of the camshaft, intake and exhaust.

The auto guys use waay to much duration and valve overlap for us.
(but that makes huge power if you have 4ft long dry headers)

You need to cool the oil as well, Teague or CP or any of the like.

Do you every travel to CA. If you do I can take you out if the season lines up.


UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 02:30 PM

I'm not sure of the X dimension. It has an alpha but I have a full bravo setup already that im going to switch it over too before it hits the water.
This is from an article.
The Velocity 230 shares a hull with its sister craft, the Velocity 22 – with which Stepp won the 1985 American Powerboat Assn./Union of International Motorboating National Championship, and set a world straightaway record of 77 mph with twin 200 hp MerCruiser stern drives

I think blowers look awesome in the engine bay but I would have to cut out my hatch and have it come out the top.
From what I have seen around here I gathered this info
my boat with the 350 mag/alpha should run around 60 with the 330 7.4 run mid 60s and with the 454 mag run around 70. I have seen guys say with a good prop they ran 73. There is suppose to be one in ontario with a 502 I think its stock that runs about 80. I read on here one guy hitting the 90s but I haven't been able to find the thread again

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 02:34 PM

Never been to CA but if things go good this year I would be very interested. I love everyone on here everyone is so nice and helpfull great community

For an oil setup what about doing something like they have for cars with the dual remote filter setup and mount it on the transom and maybe a oil cooler like for a car with an electric fan on it by the air intake into the engine compartment.

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 02:38 PM

Do you know if the ilmor engines are based off the viper v10s at all?

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 02:54 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015832)
Do you know if the ilmor engines are based off the viper v10s at all?

Same block, but it stops at the block.


UD

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015827)
Never been to CA but if things go good this year I would be very interested. I love everyone on here everyone is so nice and helpfull great community

For an oil setup what about doing something like they have for cars with the dual remote filter setup and mount it on the transom and maybe a oil cooler like for a car with an electric fan on it by the air intake into the engine compartment.

The Marine oil cooler setups use the infinite supply of 70 degree lake water (supplied courtesy of the sea pump) to cool the oil not a remote radiator- like a car.

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 03:01 PM

I know right now that boat has a cooler like that but its for the power steering. I wonder why it doesn't have a stock oil cooler

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 03:26 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015846)
I know right now that boat has a cooler like that but its for the power steering. I wonder why it doesn't have a stock oil cooler

Because the components form the factory are scaled (cut back) to the amount of power they put out.( 350HP) at crank or prop?

350HP<max> of heat input to the oil is a lot different than 500HP of heat input to the same 7 quarts of oil. The cold water is a godsend at this stage.

Which stock autos sustain this level of output?

(think of the strain of the bearing AND how much the rod has to push. )

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 03:28 PM

What cooler would you recommend?
Do you know alot about the bravo drives?

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015824)
I'm not sure of the X dimension. It has an alpha but I have a full bravo setup already that im going to switch it over too before it hits the water.
This is from an article.
The Velocity 230 shares a hull with its sister craft, the Velocity 22 with which Stepp won the 1985 American Powerboat Assn./Union of International Motorboating National Championship, and set a world straightaway record of 77 mph with twin 200 hp MerCruiser stern drives

I think blowers look awesome in the engine bay but I would have to cut out my hatch and have it come out the top.
From what I have seen around here I gathered this info
my boat with the 350 mag/alpha should run around 60 with the 330 7.4 run mid 60s and with the 454 mag run around 70. I have seen guys say with a good prop they ran 73. There is suppose to be one in ontario with a 502 I think its stock that runs about 80. I read on here one guy hitting the 90s but I haven't been able to find the thread again

Lots of info here, Ill digest this slowly.

Blowers extract an extraordinary cash input to live at all, from your description, but done well are superb. 75% of guys do it cheap and it deosn't work for the long haul.

Velocity- I respect this MFGR.
Solid super fast hulls, above average rigging, and good poeple. Their rep is great, so Id gamble the hull will take whatever you throw at it within reason. (steering aside)

You can rough an additional 1MPH per 20HP at the prop.
5MPH will equal about 100HP from your baseline.

Factor in youll lose 3-4 MPH just switching to the bravo.

Which lower are you considering, thought about that yet?

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 03:46 PM

For now I want to use the standard bravo 1 drive and I would like to build another stronger bravo on the side also. hoping to use a bravo x or xr upper for a base and I was thinking a shorty lower. this will all still take some research.
Do you know if the braxo X upper will bolt to the standard bravo 1 gimball?
I know during this time regal had the rights to velocity.
I know ill lose abit from the bravo but ill need it when it comes to a bigger engine. plus right now my alpha is in need of alittle repair.

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 03:48 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015860)
What cooler would you recommend?
Do you know alot about the bravo drives?

Hardin, Teague, CP and Dan olsen, and others all sell great coolers.
(I have an Aeroquip)

FYI- Chrome plating as cooler "costs" a serious amount of performance.

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 03:53 PM

Do run sea strainers? this was something else I was thinking about.
Chroming usually weakens the part too

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 04:11 PM

When you say most guys cheap out on the blowers what do you mean by that?

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 04:13 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015876)
Do run sea strainers? this was something else I was thinking about.
Chroming usually weakens the part too

Of Course -You have no choice if you are at all serious and run in the ocean.

Pick one with.

1. the ability to get in and dump without tools.
2. the ability to backflush with a screw in hose connection.

UD

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015889)
When you say most guys cheap out on the blowers what do you mean by that?

I mean they cut corners on the parts and machining they need because they listen to the wrong people.

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 04:21 PM

I like the idea of dumping the strainer without tools.
I was thinking of building a little box in my engine compartment to hold a few tools belts and some oil.
I was thinking if I went the blower route that I would do a 383.
But I think if I built a good 427 sb I would probably get to as fast as i would want.
Are blowers really bad on fuel?

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 04:23 PM

I forgot does the strainer go before the seapump?

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 04:34 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015896)
I forgot does the strainer go before the seapump?

Usually it does.

This stops the kelp, moss, grass, from choking the sea pump, and keeps this trash out of your coolers.....

Ive seen poeple do ALL KINDS of weird stuff though......

UD

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 04:47 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015895)
Are blowers really bad on fuel?

500HP of energy takes x amount of fuel no matter how you deliver it.
Blowers have some parasitic loss for sure.
Whipples are really good as far as adiabatic efficiency compared to roots type blowers.

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 04:54 PM

IS there much point in having the power steering fuild cooler?

Uncle Dave 01-01-2010 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by twistedvelocity (Post 3015917)
IS there much point in having the power steering fuild cooler?

Depends of how hard you are pushing against xHP of water flow and how often. Oil when pushed around- gets hot.

If you go external, steering this is usually taken care of.

UD

twistedvelocity 01-01-2010 05:13 PM

Would an add on external kit be good that taps into the stock steering?


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