Which Italian designer was the father? Theodoli, Martin or Amati?
06-18-2019, 03:18 PM
#1
Which Italian designer was the father? Theodoli, Martin or Amati?
Otam- 1954, designer Paolo Martin
Itama- 1969, designer Mario Amati (spelled backwards is Itama)
Magnum - From Wikipedia: “Naval architect, Jim Wynne, was impressed with the characteristics and performance of Hunt’s boat [Ray Hunt’s 1958 design of the 24 dev deadrise and longitudinal strakes] and designed a similar deep-vee hull, which was equally successful. In 1962, Don Aronow, a retired real estate developer, asked Jim Wynne and Walt Walters to design a high performance Deep-Vee hull for him to race. This was the first of the famed, Aronow hulls, which he promoted first under the name Formula, then Donzi, then Magnum (1966 — 1968), then Cigarette boats.”
Magnum Marine’s site says “In 1976 Magnum Marine was sold to Marchese Filippo Theodoli, an Italian boat builder, and his wife Katrin. This brought a major change in the product line. Filippo Theodoli had the innovative idea of applying high-performance technology to larger, luxury yachts. And thus, the first high-performance yachts were born. These craft would reach the speeds of the race boats, but would have the comforts of the traditional yacht.”
So, clearly, the current day beautiful design of all 3 were based on one of the three Italian designers.... but which one is the father of this design??
Was it Theodoli in 1976: “...the first high-performance yachts were born.”? Or did Martin or Amati create it before 1976?
Itama- 1969, designer Mario Amati (spelled backwards is Itama)
Magnum - From Wikipedia: “Naval architect, Jim Wynne, was impressed with the characteristics and performance of Hunt’s boat [Ray Hunt’s 1958 design of the 24 dev deadrise and longitudinal strakes] and designed a similar deep-vee hull, which was equally successful. In 1962, Don Aronow, a retired real estate developer, asked Jim Wynne and Walt Walters to design a high performance Deep-Vee hull for him to race. This was the first of the famed, Aronow hulls, which he promoted first under the name Formula, then Donzi, then Magnum (1966 — 1968), then Cigarette boats.”
Magnum Marine’s site says “In 1976 Magnum Marine was sold to Marchese Filippo Theodoli, an Italian boat builder, and his wife Katrin. This brought a major change in the product line. Filippo Theodoli had the innovative idea of applying high-performance technology to larger, luxury yachts. And thus, the first high-performance yachts were born. These craft would reach the speeds of the race boats, but would have the comforts of the traditional yacht.”
So, clearly, the current day beautiful design of all 3 were based on one of the three Italian designers.... but which one is the father of this design??
Was it Theodoli in 1976: “...the first high-performance yachts were born.”? Or did Martin or Amati create it before 1976?
06-19-2019, 12:25 PM
#2
*
Platinum Member
The history of Aronow built boats has been written and re-written (inaccurately) so many times that it's nearly impossible for newcomers to sort out fact from fiction . I've never heard before that 'Ted' Theodoli was a boat builder before he purchased Magnum .
While it is true that Don utilized the skills of Walt Walters and Jim Wynne in his early boats I believe that when he was doing the crossover from Donzi to Magnum there were different influences in play but ultimately it was Harry Shoell who did the Mag 27 hull for him and the rest is history .
While it is true that Don utilized the skills of Walt Walters and Jim Wynne in his early boats I believe that when he was doing the crossover from Donzi to Magnum there were different influences in play but ultimately it was Harry Shoell who did the Mag 27 hull for him and the rest is history .
06-20-2019, 03:27 PM
#3
The history of Aronow built boats has been written and re-written (inaccurately) so many times that it's nearly impossible for newcomers to sort out fact from fiction . I've never heard before that 'Ted' Theodoli was a boat builder before he purchased Magnum .
While it is true that Don utilized the skills of Walt Walters and Jim Wynne in his early boats I believe that when he was doing the crossover from Donzi to Magnum there were different influences in play but ultimately it was Harry Shoell who did the Mag 27 hull for him and the rest is history .
While it is true that Don utilized the skills of Walt Walters and Jim Wynne in his early boats I believe that when he was doing the crossover from Donzi to Magnum there were different influences in play but ultimately it was Harry Shoell who did the Mag 27 hull for him and the rest is history .
06-20-2019, 04:55 PM
#4
*
Platinum Member
So, clearly, the current day beautiful design of all 3 were based on one of the three Italian designers.... but which one is the father of this design??
Was it Theodoli in 1976: “...the first high-performance yachts were born.”? Or did Martin or Amati create it before 1976?
Was it Theodoli in 1976: “...the first high-performance yachts were born.”? Or did Martin or Amati create it before 1976?
After the 63 which had its deck done by Pininfarina but was an original Mag design I believe that they did utilize a designer from the other side of the pond but that was way after the 63 which was available in the 1980s . I don't think the 70+ footers came around until the later 90's .
Admittedly , there are a few Italian builders that do produce boats that have a resemblance though .
Last edited by madbouyz; 06-20-2019 at 04:59 PM.
06-20-2019, 07:25 PM
#5
Gold Member
Gold Member
You might also want to include Tornado yachts in the mix. They started in late 60's offshore racing. Can't categorically answer your question but there's quite a few boats with very similar lines to the ones mentioned, floating around Italy.
RR
RR
06-21-2019, 05:21 AM
#6
Registered
It's all about Jim Wynne, Walt Walters and Aronow.
In 1966 Walt Walters and Jim Wynne was helping Aronow design the Donzi-Magnum 35 race boat, 'Maltese Magnum'. The wide beam 24-degree deadrise was a more nimble wave-crusher and kind of a late answer to say the 1963 Bertram 38 design. The Donzi-Magnum 35 was raced successfully by Mr. Jake Trotter and also helped Don Aronow win the 1967 World Championship. The late Mario Amati's 1977 designed Itama 38 was his own take on the Magnum Marine 38. The difference was that it had 22-degrees deadrise at the transom and therefore sacrificed some rough sea capability, but gained a little in top speed and fuel consumption. The 1998 Otam 45 was their first 'Magnum' yacht and was simply a Magnum Marine 44 built under license from Magnum thanks to Filippo Theodoli's widow Katrin's grace. Paolo Martin was responsible for exterior and interior design, but the Otam 45 and 55 were Magnum hulls. Cigarette Racing even got the right to sell Otam yachts' in 1998 as the Cigarette 45 Heritage and the 50 Aventura. What would have happened if Walters and Wynne had got into the aviation industry in the late 1950s and never looked back at boating?
Last edited by larslindroth; 06-21-2019 at 05:25 AM.
06-21-2019, 10:25 AM
#7
JC Performance Engines
Gold Member
Don did the 35 and 38.
Ted stretched the 38 to make the 40. Also redesigned the deck w/ a bit of a pop.
Ted designed the 53, then also cut it to make the 45.
Ted stretched the 38 to make the 40. Also redesigned the deck w/ a bit of a pop.
Ted designed the 53, then also cut it to make the 45.
09-07-2020, 06:34 AM
#9
Registered
Magnum was the first in building grp large sport cruisers. Let say the idea of a fast sport cruiser started with the 35, which then evolved in the 38.
Before the Magnum 35 there was though a successful 8 meter boat in the sixties called Italcraft Sarima which apart placing well in the offshore races in the Med, had beautiful lines, which I think inspired Aronow (as he raced against it in Italy) for the Mag 35/38.
Theodoli was creative as he had clients who wanted bigger Magnum's, and so in 1979 he launched the 53, largest biggest open sport yacht boat at the time.
The first to get inspired by Magnum in Italy where Tornado and Baia. The first did a 38 which is a near identical to a Mag 38 but less heavy and with stern drive. This boat is still produced today.
Baia did the Jeroboam in 79, then B40 and B50, this last a challenge to the Magnum 53. The B50 was designed by Aronow and Walters and sold as much the Magnum 53 albeit much cheaper, but with a great hull. Some say even better to the Magnum.
Indeed the Baia B50 won the long Venice - Monte Carlo race once and place second in other races.
Apart the Baia B50 other Italians, attacked the 50 feet plus open sport yacht. There was the Profilmarine 50 Cherokee launched in 1981 designed Andrea Mercati which also sold well, and had a nice riding hull.
And last but not the least the large Tecnomarine T62 Cobra which was designed by Don Shead which launched in 1982.
Where does Itama and Otam say in all this.
Itama started by building flybridge yachts from 13 to 18 meters in 69. But in 1979 inspired by the success of Magnum launched the 38, first build of wood and then of fiberglass.
The fiberglass version of 1980 also featured underwater exhausts. The Itama 38 sold in 180+ up to 2002 when the model became the 40 (same model but different windshield and cockpit layout). Itama was sold in the end of 2004 to Ferretti Group.
Eventually Itama launched the 52 in end 83 which will become a 54 from 85 onward, and then a also a 45 in 86. Itama are very good boats and the hull Vee closes at 22, 2 degrees less to a Magnum.
Otam also started like Itama building wooden boat from 11 to 14 meters in Santa Margherita and also as a Riva Service Center in the Tigullio Ligurian sea area. But in the eighties the yard was doing a lot of internal fit out to the Magnum's arriving in Italy, and boat building production was stopped in mid/end seventies. They where fitting a lot of Magnums, since sales in Italy where very good. In the mid nineties (95/96) Otam launched its new line inspired to the Magnum with the 55 Millennium and was followed by a 45 in 97 and in the first years up to 2000 (I think) they where co-branded as Cigarette.
I think this clarifies a lot. If have any questions just ask.
Before the Magnum 35 there was though a successful 8 meter boat in the sixties called Italcraft Sarima which apart placing well in the offshore races in the Med, had beautiful lines, which I think inspired Aronow (as he raced against it in Italy) for the Mag 35/38.
Theodoli was creative as he had clients who wanted bigger Magnum's, and so in 1979 he launched the 53, largest biggest open sport yacht boat at the time.
The first to get inspired by Magnum in Italy where Tornado and Baia. The first did a 38 which is a near identical to a Mag 38 but less heavy and with stern drive. This boat is still produced today.
Baia did the Jeroboam in 79, then B40 and B50, this last a challenge to the Magnum 53. The B50 was designed by Aronow and Walters and sold as much the Magnum 53 albeit much cheaper, but with a great hull. Some say even better to the Magnum.
Indeed the Baia B50 won the long Venice - Monte Carlo race once and place second in other races.
Apart the Baia B50 other Italians, attacked the 50 feet plus open sport yacht. There was the Profilmarine 50 Cherokee launched in 1981 designed Andrea Mercati which also sold well, and had a nice riding hull.
And last but not the least the large Tecnomarine T62 Cobra which was designed by Don Shead which launched in 1982.
Where does Itama and Otam say in all this.
Itama started by building flybridge yachts from 13 to 18 meters in 69. But in 1979 inspired by the success of Magnum launched the 38, first build of wood and then of fiberglass.
The fiberglass version of 1980 also featured underwater exhausts. The Itama 38 sold in 180+ up to 2002 when the model became the 40 (same model but different windshield and cockpit layout). Itama was sold in the end of 2004 to Ferretti Group.
Eventually Itama launched the 52 in end 83 which will become a 54 from 85 onward, and then a also a 45 in 86. Itama are very good boats and the hull Vee closes at 22, 2 degrees less to a Magnum.
Otam also started like Itama building wooden boat from 11 to 14 meters in Santa Margherita and also as a Riva Service Center in the Tigullio Ligurian sea area. But in the eighties the yard was doing a lot of internal fit out to the Magnum's arriving in Italy, and boat building production was stopped in mid/end seventies. They where fitting a lot of Magnums, since sales in Italy where very good. In the mid nineties (95/96) Otam launched its new line inspired to the Magnum with the 55 Millennium and was followed by a 45 in 97 and in the first years up to 2000 (I think) they where co-branded as Cigarette.
I think this clarifies a lot. If have any questions just ask.
Last edited by liam; 09-08-2020 at 05:11 PM.
