35 Flame with 600 sci
 

Does anyone know if there has been a Flame built with Mercury 600's? Anyone have a guess as to how fast one would go with that power? I have read that the 525's are in the low 90's. Thanks!

I don't know about a Flame, but on a Heat, the 600sci is only about 4-5 mph faster. The difference between the 525 and the 600 is dramatic in acceleration, or when you have both boats loaded. The 600 is only about 1-3 mph slower when loaded with fuel and people, wherin the 525 loses about 5-6 mph. Also for about $2000 the 600sci can be reprogramed/pullied for about 700hp.

Just my observations,

Chris

it should do 95 every day. Acceleration should be awesome.

There has not been one built. I strongly considered the 600 Merc power but went with 525's Linster is correct, 95-97 MPH would be projected numbers.

Things to consider;

*Gasoline 91 or better
*Insurance bumps you significantly
*Dollars per MPH seems like a lot

My 2 cents

Gary

For 2008, the 600sci is rated for 87 octane.

http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndr...0sci/specs.php

The price difference between a 525 and a 600sci is less than a Whipple kit for the 525.

ie.. Upgrade from a 525 to a 600 is aprox 8.5K and Whipple kit is aprox 11K - 12K

My insurance cost was $89 more per year for the 600.

In my case the upgrade was worth it. Not sure if it would be at 2x motors, but I sure do love my boat.

Chris

Gotcha Chris, What speeds are you seeing? We have sold 28's with power up to the 550 Ilmor's. 75MPH is about the best we've seen.

Loading the 600's in my 2007 would have doubled my insurance that along with the octane requirements back then were the factors.

These are consistant GPS speeds:

77-78 Fully loaded with 7 people, camping gear, and full tanks, bow cover off.

79-80 Two people, light load, Tanks 1/2 full, bow cover off.

80-81 Two people, light load, Tanks 1/2 full, bow cover on.

82.5 When the stars align.

I can hit 78-79 just about anytime, anywhere.

Chris

Great info Chris, hopefully, we'll get a customer that wants the same package. Would love to take a ride. The 28's one of my favorite boats. One engine, great ride, fast.....

NG

Love my boat!

Testing has shown me that the Supercharged 600sci motor is not as sensative to boat load/ Speed, as my friends N/A 525 motor.

Still doing prop testing for that elusive "Magic Prop"

Anyway.... I think that a Flame with dual 600's would be simply awsome and probably worth the extra cost.

Taking the next step to 700's would be quite a substantial difference in cost outlay, because you then have to go to the NTX drives instead of XR's.

Chris

one thing to consider from the above is that it was 8.5K to go 75 extra HP. The whipple would make 700 easy. The second 100 hp was only 2.5k. The advantage is you turn the key with a warranty. The whipple is a lot of work to put on, makes greater power, but you loose the warranty. Depends on what your goals are. I like turning the key. Some people would want 85 to 90.

Thanks for all of the input. I read a thread in GD that discussed the octane change to 87. I also read about the reliability of 600's in the same thread (except for the XR drives if you're not careful). If I end up with a flame, it will have 600's. As for modifying 525's, I wouldn't even consider it......I'm in to reliability. I can't work on these things and unfortunately no one in my area can either.

I definitely like what I'm hearing about speeds. I would be extremely happy with a solid 95 MPH.

The drives should hold up OK. The biggest problem is in big water were the boat & drive leaves the water. Re-entry is what causes them the strain. I allways play with the trottle if I leave the water to take the load off the drive. The 600 should work great in that boat.

Food for thought:
I have found my 30 Bravo 1's get 12% slip on the 35.
RPMXGear XPitchXFactor=SpeedXSlip=Speed
5300x1.50x30x0.0009470=100.38x0.880x88.34

The 525's in Gary's boat run 32 pitch 91 at 5300 if I remember correctly. 15%
RPMXGear PitchXFactor=SpeedXSlip=Speed
5300x1.50x32x0.0009470=107.07x0.850=91.01

If the boat runs between 95-97 you would need 34's
The 34's have a lot of slip. The most efficent Bravo1's are the 28's out of the box.

I would get the drives with 1:36 gears & 30 Bravo 1's
RPMXGear XPitchXFactor=SpeedXSlip=Speed
5300x1.36x30x0.0009470=110.72x0.880=97.43 12%

Linster, You are quite the scientist!

Linster,

I hate to sound like an idiot, but you just lost me. 34's have a lot of slip? Does that mean out of the hole or while running? Are you suggesting something other than Bravo props? I just assumed that mercury would set the boat up with the best possible configuration out of the gate.

Linnie is just saying that after 30's the Bravo prop's efficiency falls off quickly. You would more than likely see more slip everywhere with 34's.

Linnie, are your 30s and Garys 32s labbed or stock?

I'm hoping to be able to spin my 30s to about 5500 at our high elevation if I'm lucky. I'll be cam'd for the 5700rpm range so that will be a good starting point for prop work here.
Who knows where I'll be at sea level :rolleyes:

Thx,
Dave

Hey Dave,

My 32's are labbed. I tested the boat this past Sept. with Tres Martin where slightly less trim (5.5 vs 6.5) and slightly more tab (5vs4.5) achieved the best top end numbers. I have always had the tendency to over trim and under tab.

Decided to add the 380 K-planes (longer than the stock 280's) and try a 31 labbed Hydro five blade. The longer K-planes should extend the boat enough to deduce tab influence and grab another couple MPH?

In the end, the 35 Nordic is one of the fastest 35' Vee Hulls you'll find in production, the 600's will make it even faster.

NG

Is anyone interested in an 05 Heat w/525 xr/its, dana tabs, electric seats, closed bow and trailer. Great cond. What do you guys think it is worth. All this talk about the 35 is givin me a chubby.

We will gladly take it on trade for a new or used 35..

Unlimited Marine.com

The 34's are more slip through the entire RPM range. When you pitch a prop, you are raising the blade up so it actually pushes less water at a more extreme angle. With more pitch you should actually need more diameter. In cats the effect is less than a V bottom, because they glide more, less wetted bottom.

Second, Mercury only sells engines & drives, they leave it up to the manufacturer or the owner to set up the prop & gear ratio.

Hope that explains more.

Dave, my comaparisions are with the labbed 30's Gary put on the boat. They were 2 mph faster than the stock 30's now. I just got them back from being labbed

Spent way too much time on this boat crap. 26 years now with power boats & engines.

Hope all is going well

I think the 31's will be too much, I dont think you will get the rpm. Those props will bite better than the labbed bravos which are set up with a little more slip. I With better grip on the Hydro's, the trim will be able to much better control the bow of the boat. Little trim differences will make larger corrections. Not sure on the longer tabs.

I think the slip will go down to the 8-9% range. I would think that you would need 29's to keep acceleration & top speed. Most people, which is few I know, went down 2-3 prop sizes to get the Hydro's to keep the same rpm. Most lost 1-2 top MPH but gained 5 mph cruise. With the better bite, I have stayed away to help keep the drive stress down. I get into large water too often.

I hope it all works, The recomendations come from much more experience than I. You are crossing new concepts.

I believe that Tim from OCM tried a set of 5 blade hydro's on his carbon-fiber 35 (with 525's), and did not like them. Said he liked the Bravo's better. He then tried a set of 29 Hering five blades, and said they were magic !

I tried one of his Hering 29's on my Heat and could not turn it past 4800 rpm. But.... The boat was faster at 3K and 4K by 7mph over any other prop. I was also only 1.5 mph slower on the top end than my labbed and tweeked Bravo 28 at 5400 rpm. I ordered a 27 five blade Hering.

I am now a Hering Believer!

Chris

P.S. I also agree that the 28 Bravo is the most efficient prop of the Bravo line. I can consistantly get this prop into 10.8% - 11.6% slip numbers on my boat. The Hering posted 9.3% slip. The P5x's were consistantly about 12.5%

Linnie (or anyone),
Some more food for thought here...
My 496HOs are very heavy motors. My new 588s will weigh in much less by nature; I'm thinking in the neighborhood of 175 lbs a side.
This leaves me wondering if I'll need to have more cup for bow lift beings the tail will have more natural transom lift.
Anyone know how or if the Ilmor Flame reacted differently?

Dave

Anyone tried 5-blade Herrings on a stock 28' with a 496 HO?

I think with the amount of natural bow lift the Flames have you may end up with the perfect setup.

Dave,

When they lab them they thin them, I think too much. They also take the cup from.040 to 0.60 from what I 've been told. The mercury labbed 30's Gary gave me with my boat worked best. At that point, i was still on the James river that has some debris. I sent them off to another company to get fuixed & they never worked right. I sold them & bought stock. I just got them back but only had them half thinned. Not run them & it looks to cold to now,.