nordic vs sonic
 

i like what i here about sonics ride in the big stuff and i like the room in the cabin looking at a prowler or 31ss

how does the 28 heat run with a 496 ?
and the 35 flame with 500efi s ?
are these boats any good in the heavyer stuff and how about the room down stairs.
would be boating on lake ontario

sonic or nordic or other? thanks

I don't know much about the Sonics, but I think they look dated compared to the styling of the Nordics.

Chris

We are a dealer for both Nordics and Sonics.

We have a few 28 Nordics in stock as well as a new 07 leftover 31SS Sonic and a used 35 Flame.

The Sonic and the 28 Nordic will be in the water for the Lake Cumberland Poker Run next weekend, if you are in the area. Take a ride in both and see for yourself.

The Sonic is definately a well built, offshore performance boat that likes the big water. It does have a hull design that has been the same for many years, but it is proven to work very well. There is also a lot of room in the cabin and a decent amount of amenities. This boat runs in the 70's with twin 496's.

The '01 35 Flame with 500's that we have runs in the high 80's. It also rides very well. A new 35 Flame with 525's in it will run in the lower 90's. This is a lighter boat than a Sonic and the graphics are usually flashier. Another extremely well built boat with a lot of attention to detail.

A 28 Nordic with a 496 will usually run between 67 and 73, depending on the boat and conditions.

We have 10 Nordics in stock and one Sonic. The Sonic fills the gap between the 28 Nordic and the 35 Nordic.

www.unlimitedmarine.com to see the inventory.

agreed that the nordics are a sleek looking boat,and that flame is fast.
any other coments out there,especialy on ride and quality of construction.
thanks again

My 28 with a 496 at sea level ran 67 once...that was downhill! 65 most days, 62 summer heat. The only time it saw 70+ was on the trailer.

I had it in Long Island Sound which can get a decent chop, not the best ride with 22 degrees and a pad. I think it's a better lake boat, it definitely wasn't constructed to be an offshore boat. That being said it had a great cabin, great looking, great fit & finish.

Sonic is going to be a better Lake Ontario boat. Now there was a 35 Flame around here which did well in these waters...better bet than the 28.

good info indy
what your saying is what i was thinking
i was boating a lot in the fingerlakes, i have 5 lakes within
1 hour including ontario.

not sure what i'am gona do.
i plan on trailering for now and i like the variety of the lakes.
been wanting something bigger with twins but probably better
off with single engine smaller boat , pluss the cost is easyer to sell to the wife'

sold my boat so i'am gona by something

Bigger is better, I have a Flame, first twin for me. I was nervous about the size at first but it I could not see myself back in a smaller single. I boat on the Potomac and Chesapeake bay. We can have often 3 footers. You like the size when caught in them. I have had it through 5 footers, no fun no matter what you have. Both are good boats.

I think you're better off with a bigger twin. I'm not sure I could ever go back to a single again after a twin. However, cash is king. The bigger twins cost more to run for sure.

I had the Nordic for 3 seasons on Long Island Sound, and I've been on a 28 Pantera on the same body of water. There is no comparison as to the ride between the two, Pantera without question is much better in the slop. It has a sharp entry and 24 degree deadrise and no steps, notches, or any other garbage. However, the freeboard on the Pantera is terrible and the fit and finish is not even close to the Nordic. Take away the swim platform and notch in the Nordic and it's not really a 28' boat, the Pantera is all hull. I guess you can't have it all. Maybe you can look at a 28 AT?

31SS here.....boat loves chop. And in my opinion has one of the more spacious cuddies. I will never own a boat under 30ft again.The trick to big waves is a longer boat with speed (preferably above 60) Some may argue but I will vouch for the sonic in large waves. I have also had EXCELLENT customer service from sonic. My boat did not come with a owners manual and they have been quick to reply on any questions I have had.

I Think What Ever I Get Will Be 24 Degres
The At's Are Nice No Dout
I Wiil Keep Looking
Thanks For The Info

The subject of bottom degree angle (deadrise) on the Heat comes up from time to time. The factory says it's a 24o bottom. Does it have a pad and step? Yes, just like Fountain, Cigarette, Outerlimits, etc, etc. Check out the website if you like www.nordicboatsusa.com . Is it the smoothest riding rough water boat in this size range? No, but it is certainly not the worst, and it is more efficient than the Sonic. The Sonic is a nice well built boat. They look solid and I think would make a nice saltwater boat. Do yourself a favor and drive them both before you buy.
Regards,
Steve

Hey Indy,
Check out the new 28' Pantera SR. It some has two big steps, a notch, and probably more "garbage" :lolhit:. Now if good old staid Pantera has to stoop to these depths to keep up with the competition, maybe they are trying to tell you something.
Like maybe the straight deep V still works, but it is far from being the most efficient hull form. Check it out www.panteraboats.com BTW, I love this boat. Check out the hull lighting.........
Regards,
Steve

Yeah...they've stooped to the same marketing gimmick everyone else has :evilb:

Nah...I'll stick to conventional hulls. In my waters there's enough chop that our hulls always have air under them. Panteras are ok, but I don't like the low freeboard. Maybe a sit-down would be better. Anyway I could care less about eeking the last mph outta my boats anymore. Judging by my last two boats (PowerPlay, Nordic 28 - 496) I was always pulling up the rear so top speed was never my thing. But you might appreciate that 'ol fashioned PowerPlay conventional hull running through 4's.

I just checked out that link to Pantera that is posted. I just don't understand why these builders don't add a little more room in the cockpit. Even on the 36, it looks as if you would barely keep from banging your knees if your in the back seat. How about stealing 6 inches from the engine compartment and 6-12" from the cabin. These boats would be more user and family friendly, Just my 02.

Just one thought on this statement. I'm not totally sold on steps and think they compromise safety over a marginal increase in speed. I personally feel the public has been sold a bill of goods for the most part by the marketing types. I'm not a hull designer nor do I have tons studies at my disposal, just some general observations.

My own testing with the 28 and it's single step showed that the fastest speed was trimmed out to the point where the step didn't even come into play. I used labbed props and stock props with a mild power engine. Maybe my Heat was just an aberration and others get different results but my observations are over a full 2 1/3 year period and money wasted on testing with my specific boat. Maybe its my waters too, calm lake like conditions are infrequent and precise testing a bit harder, but I did it whenever I got the chance. I actually found the biggest difference maker was the weather! Hot humid days differed vastly from the cooler dryer days. A little chop better than flat sticky calm too.

My buddy has a '05 PowerPlay 33' conventional hull with Merc 525's spinning stock 32 Bravos. He could run 88 pretty consistently with none of the quirks of the steps. A 525 Fountain that supposedly has the "fastest" hull runs 90 on a practical basis. Maybe it's more of a weight thing than steps? And there isn't much argument in my mind about which boat I'd rather be on in crappy water. Two mph means nothing to me compared to its ability to handle rougher conditions, and maybe thats where a line is drawn between performance boaters. Bow entry angle, transom deadrise also come into play. 22 degree hulls seem to be quicker than the sharper 24s but you take a beating in the chop, also pads compromise ride unless you're in lake conditions. But in the end, 2 mph could be a difference maker to others and worth the price of steps.

So when I make the comment of "garbage" in reference to steps, notches, swim platforms, etc. it's coming from a different perspective than yours. Mine is from boating 35 years in choppy waters where hull length is worth more than a slight increase in performance so I look unfavorably on notches and swim platforms (and beaks for that matter!) thus my perspective when addressing the original poster. Lake Ontario has to be some rough waters, I'd rather give him real world feedback so he doesn't make the same mistakes I have.

Indy,
FYI, Fountain says their new 35' runs 100+ with stock 525s.
You had a stock Heat that was evidently marginal for your conditions, and I agree your regular boating waters should be a high consideration for hull length and type.
I also think you are looking at things from a traditionalist point of view, which is OK for you. I venture to think most people on OSO fall into the serious performance side, like me.
There are only 2 ways to make a boat go faster. Raise the horsepower to weight ratio (always fun from my perspective), or make more efficient use of the available horsepower it has. I'm for both.
Freeing up a heavy offshore hull by ventilating the bottom is just common sense. If it weren't, why would Nordic, Eliminator, Cigarette, Fountain, Outerlimits, Hustler, Howard, Formula, Lavey, Donzi, etc, etc, etc all be using them? Why did they spend millions building and modifying their molds if their old deep vees were adequate? Is it just bulll**** marketing as you say? Wow, these guys must all be sitting around one big f'ing boardroom table because they all have their rap down. All of them say their boats are 5 to 10% faster with the same HP and step hulls. Nordic's new 42'er with a very full plush cabin just ran over 100 with stock warranteed Merc 700s, as did Fountain's 42'er with Illmore 700s. That's efficient. I think they were all attempting to make their hulls more efficient so they could deliver respectable performance with factory warrateed engine packages.
You also seem to infer that step boats have handling quirks and don't handle rough water as well as straight Vs. That's just not true. With dual hydraulic steering my 82 MPH Baja chinewalked. I could drive it because I've driven and raced much faster (100+) pad vee outboards (Checkmate/Baja/Allison/Bullet/etc), but it was annoying. My 92 MPH Nordic handles so well I can take my hands off the wheel at WOT in good water, not that I recommend that. I'll quote from Powerboat (August 2009) regarding the two boats I mentioned above. Bob Teague/John Tomlinson on the Fountain "it's completely predictable, and on a string the whole time", "I didn't even have to touch the steering wheel, really"; and on the Nordic "This thing handles good through the turns and slaloms, It's just an all around nice boat", "Test driver John Tomlinson agreed, giving the v-bottom top marks in turning and slalom drills, as well as tracking at all speeds".
I remember a Powerplay crashing off the west coast of Florida a couple of years ago, tragically killing at least one occupant. Does this mean all true V bottoms are dangerous? Of course not, the driver was in over his head and spun the boat out.
It's just the march of technology. I guess there are people who embrace new technology, and there are those who don't.
Regards,
Steve

Steve...the step/non-step is kinda like politics and religion...hard to change anyones mind!!

I know Reggie says 100 with 525s but I'll take real world info before Reggie, this from a Lightning owner:

I'm not sure sure everybody on here is a performance junkie either. Plenty of Cafe, Apache, Pantera, PP, conv Top Gun, et al. owners having tons of fun with their old technology boats.

And yes I believe that much of the step claims are marketing and profit driven.

Forums like this are replete with stories of accidents due to improper use of stepped hulls, they aren't for the novice boater and there are now courses on how to drive these things properly due to the many incidents. Teague and Tomlinson are at the top of the heap here and can drive the shorts off of just about anybody, but that doesn't eliminate the potential for issues with less experienced drivers.

The PP accident you referenced was a result of irresponsible driving in shallow waters not quirky handling characteristics.

I believe that high tech materials and newer laminating techniques resulting in lighter boats has much to do with increased speeds too as you referenced in your power to weight ratio comment.

In the end you like what you like, I like what I like, and that's that. I'm glad you like your Nordic, it's a fine boat for sure...in fact I think you own the boat that I ordered and Nordic F'd up by not following my color/pattern choices.

So if we're ever on the same body of water, wave as you go by...I'll be the pokey one in the old fashioned boat.

A side by side 525 35 Fountain has run up to 92mph I believe, honest 90. The staggered ones run 100+ with the right load and conditions. Just clearing up speed numbers.

The data is conclusive.
 

Peoples opinions when not backed up by third party data are relatively, if not wholly meaningless.



Uncle Dave

My opinion is:

Nordics rock!

Sonics suck!

:lolhit:

Chris

I just took a ride in a 2008 35 fountain with staggered 525's. With a half a tank of fuel, and three people on board, the best we could do was 91 mph. Hard for me to believe that there was another 9 or 10 mph lurking in there somewhere. This setup was how it was delivered from fountain.. we tried all sorts of trim tab angles and drive trim over the period of about an hour. 91 was the best we could manage.

I did like the way it rode over the water though.

Chris

Thanks Dan (Ken?), this is just my point. A practical 2 mph difference between steps on the "marketed" fastest hull vs. a high quality conventional hull.

Indy,
If you ever get to Nashville, look me up. You are welcome to drive "your" old boat if you want to. I'll think you'll find it's plenty exciting. BTW, I love the colors as do most people. If this isn't what you ordered, what did you order?
Who was the dealer?
I bought it from a guy in Cincinatti in Dec '03.
Regards,
Steve

The colors I ordered were correct, but they reversed the colors on the flag! When I went to the Nordic factory to check it out I said there must have been an error, the colors were reversed. They said nope, that's what I ordered. Then I had them pull the color sheet that I sent to them and they saw that there was a mistake. They had a buyer from Cinci that loved it and he bought it with the 575 package and they built me another hull with the correct color pattern. The boat is beautiful no doubt, I just wanted the purple as the primary color on the flag.

I'm sure your boat is plenty fast too!!! It would probably blow what little hair I have left right off my head!! Have fun and be safe.

Staggered- is/are offset engine mounts

Steps are in the bottom of the hull

I believe CB is pointing out he doesn't think there is 9-10 to be gained in staggering the engine mounts (which eats up space in the boat) as another poster claimed.

UD

I know what staggered is :confused: I was referencing fountain40icbm's statement that the Fountain 35 side-by-side was an honest 90, just a couple of mph faster than my buddy's 33 525 PP which is also side-by-side.

My bad then, it seemed the "attributes of speed" changed mid thread.

Its amazing the Nordic guys blew the paint scheme you laid out. Never ever heard of that happening, but with gelcoat upside down and backwards is easier to make that mistake than with paint.

Between the 2 Id pick the Nordic.

That said I think sonic makes a nice solid rig.

(aside from the aesthetics of backwards arches with no radar or speakers in them, and the swimstep that looks like an upside down lawn chair bolted to the hull)

I wouldnt make a purchase decision either way based on a stepped hull(but would staggereds) Multitudinous 3rd party testing shows steps faster between 1 and 5MPH with identical power.

(if anyone has better data than what I posted Id love to see it)

Maybe Pantera succumbed to marketing hype, but Jo himself states a marked gain and no handling deterioration. Pantera is not my pet brand, but those guys seem pretty solid and straightforward to me.

UD

Its Dan here Indy. Im a staggered step bottom/Cat guy so im not going to put my input here.:D

Is the Glad gone? That was one beautiful boat!! Saw you guys at the NYC poker run going out in your Sutphen...we got there late and got to see the last boat pulling out of the marina :( Weather stunk too...I'll get there extra early next year to see the hardware.

Yep, we sold the Glad in Jan after we bought our 35 Motion Cat. Now we have the Sutphen and Motion. Both are for sale too! If was fun running in the rain at NYC. You looking for another ride?

I loved that Glad, but the Sutphen is sweet too! Nice that you got a cat, I kick around the idea of a 28 Skater for the next one, no more messing around the bilge and would scoot 60-70 miles up the Sound nicely to get to the east end in a reasonable time from Norwalk.

For the time being we're out of boating, the economy has taken a toll on this family with me being in construction and Diane in the secondary mortgage market. We sold the PP and the 'vette and have hunkered down until we see some change. Not fun but we gotta deal with reality too.

Love my screwed up gelcoat. I think they got it right. If you look at the upper stripes fading from yellow to dark purple towards the transom, it has better continuity with the lower yellow stripe changing to dark purple checkers in the same direction. It's also one of the only Heats I've seen with graphics on both sides of the front deck.
Steve

You're right...looks beautiful in those pics! Your boat definitely had better fades than one we ultimately received. Our transitions from yellow to purple took place in a few inches whereas yours fade over a long length. The gel dude did ours on a Saturday morning, maybe Friday night wasn't too good to him.

I still love that deck design to this day. We adapted it from a Nordic we saw at the Ft. Lauderdale boat show when we flew down to see one and get a test ride for the first time.