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2009 Thor

Old 10-21-2009, 09:46 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 26 REDLINE
Hey RD....you have a friend over here in the sandbox, let me know if I need to have my personal online forums attorney KAP on here he will help us out...
Ahhh... now we have my two favorite cats in the same thread.

Chris
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CB-BLR
Ahhh... now we have my two favorite cats in the same thread.

Chris
You better believe it bro, give River Dave a break, he knows his chit and is a good guy, he really only made an observation which I also think that it distracts from the beautiful engine work I really would have put a little more fourthought into the hatch actuators, I really would rethink the enginering, and trust me I had a hatch blow off @ only 100mph, thank god it floated and I was able to retrieve it, but it really scared the chit out of us
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:18 PM
  #43  
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OK

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Old 10-21-2009, 10:28 PM
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Chris, you guys don't know me yet.. Don't take anything I say too seriously on a message board. . If I ran into ole steve I'd be the first guy to buy him a beer.

I think your reading it harsher than it is because of the newbie status.. (thinking I take this seriously or something) Trust me I'm not new to the boating message board racket.. I was just giving Steve some ****.. Rubbin elbows n what not.

RD

Last edited by RiverDave; 10-21-2009 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:32 PM
  #45  
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Dave,

What kind of boat do you have, and from what part of the country do you hail?

Chris
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:40 PM
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Smile

Currently I have a 21 schiada, and two minis.. A 12'er and a 10'er.

Live in San Diego, boat mostly on Parker strip az.

Used to have a 22.6 Nordic sprint and a couple spectra 20's.

RD
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RiverDave
Steve, I tried.. I even wrote a nice post or two offering apollogies for the post coming off negatively to try and keep this thread on track. Impressive 140 mph boat) but your relentless. Soooo...



Stevo.. Your arguing symantics here, but I'll play along.. So in your words you believe the Thor to be a cat, but the Stoker not to be.

A Cat as defined by you being a a tunnel OFFSHORE type boat. That being said you consider the Thor to be an "offshore" boat?

Seriously? Out here here they're considered lake boats. Nobody buys a Thor (or most any other cat with a center pod) with the intent of pounding around in the ocean with it, at least not where I'm from.



1 boat - two tunnels one center pod
1 boat - two tunnels one center pod.. Differeng forms of air entrapment?



We're not talking about Stokers.. The thread was in regard to a 140mph Thor, and subsequently a portion of that boat (I brouhgt up regrettably) the hatch ram system.

Your trying very hard to "qualify" your opinions on things that are completely irrelevant. I once knew a hooker named Charlotte, but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about either? If your qualifying all that on the bottom of the boat? Rest assured they are both tunnels with center pods. As it applies to a speed record I'm not sure i they would be in the same class as there is a considerably size difference. Being that I don't know of any sanctioning body actually running a "bravo speed record" though the point is somewhat moot. The "records" are usually claimed by people that have just gone out and run insane #'s.. I don't believe they are actually "recorded" / sanctioned by anybody.

That's all tit for tat though Steverino.. .



I questioned the engineering of one tiny part of the boat and you flipped your lid. You are relentless.. So fine we'll have the discussion now.

If you think anything about that hatch ram system is "well engineered" then you need to have your head examined. There are fairly basic principals at play here, and it's mind boggling (and very telling) to me that you can't see it.

The original hatch ram system attaches directly to the engine hatch via a piece of angle bolted to the hatch. When the hatch lifts the assy is in "compression" and when it pulls down it's in "tensile" and makes for an incredibly strong setup (in relation to a hatch pulling up at speed) This also applies to the person whom brought up the large fountain engine hatches with a single ram.

Now follow me here genius.. Because this really isn't all that complicated. They took the original piece of angle, and loaded it LATERALLY, no longer in compression or tensile. Weak link # 1. This will allow movement. Then they loaded that up with an "arm" (yes that's an actual engineering term fruitloop) that's probably 12 inches or so long judging by the pics, then attached the other end to a hatch ram that has literally zero side to side stabillity..

So lets get into the actual specifics Steve.. What could possibly go wrong with that whole program? Well lets say your running at 140, and you run across some cross wind, or even a temperature differential (hot spots and cold spots on the water), let say you even run across some little side wind, doesn't much matter. Lets say that any of those circumstances create even a 1/2 PSI of vacuum on the front half of that engine hatch (very, very possible)

The hatch itself is what.. 4 1/2 long by 6 1/2 - 7 feet wide? Well lets divide that by 2 so that only HALF the engine hatch (front half where vacuum would most likely be created) is in play.

2' x 6' for round #'s.. PSI = Pounds per square inch. 1/2 pound per square inch.. So you take (this is only HALF of the engine hatch mind you) 24 inches multiplied by 72 inches which gives you a grand total of 1,728 inches.. Now we're using a differential pressure of a 1/2 pd, so we divide that by 2.. Which equals 864 pounds of lifting pressure on that engine hatch.

Now in a traditional setup that's not that big of a deal. You can hang a ton of weight on a hatch ram in tensile. They won't be able to move it one way or the other under those loads, but to maintain it in a down position is no problem. Even the angle in tensile you could probbaly hang the whole boat off that piece of angle with no problems in direct tensile..

But that is not the case here.. It's loaded laterally, and has 12 inches of leverage (arm) and is secured to a hatch ram with no lateral support.

Let me make this even clearer for you.. Take a piece of angle, put a 12 inch bar in it and bolt it to something as seen here, and just walk up and push the end of the bar up and down. (How much effort do you think this will take to move the end of the bar?) Being a machinist that's around metals all the time, (qualifying?) I could whip you up a little test assembly, but off the top of my head.. I'd wager you could move the end of that bar up and down 1/4 - 1/2 inch with minimal effort. That is the scenario here.. Probably 50 - 100 lbs and you have all kinds of play in the setup. (I'm going to come back to this)

Now put it in a real world scenario, and you have 864 lbs.. Well you can divide that by 2 because there are two of them.

That setup isn't good for 432 lbs on a good day.. And that's the REAL WORLD scenario your in, if only 1/2 pd of differential pressure is generated. So what happens if we even generate a 1/4 psi.. Well we go back to that piece of angle with a 12 inch rod sticking out of it. We apply 216 pds to that rod, and guess what it moves quite a bit. What happens when that happens on the boat Steve.. The hatch comes up Steve, the hatch comes up....

Now when your hatch "peeks up" for a second you can throw your 1/4 and 1/2 psi's right out the window.. Now you got problems.

It's easily fixed (for the 2nd time now) by either attaching the rams back in tension to the engine hatch, or adding a 2nd piece of angle to that bar, to create a box, which takes it out of lateral loading again.

So forgive me Steve for not buying into your "well engineered" post.

Now who knows, maybe the guy will get lucky? Maybe he will never impart on a situation that even causes any pressure differential what so ever? I kinda doubt it, but maybe who knows?

What I do know is that for less than 10 bucks in material, and a dollar worth of screws, he'd never have to worry about it again. That was the intent of the information Steve.. It wasn't to talk trash on his boat, it was to say "Hey, you got yourself a 100+K dollar rig, for 10 bucks you can solve a potential problem."



I certainly can see the difference.. Your example has nothing to do with what we're talking about. The Thor has a center pod, the Stoker has a center pod, an American Offshore has a center pod, most every west coast cat has a center pod..

Maybe you can see the similarity? Maybe not?



Well I dunno about that Steve.. that's post # 11, and with it I pretty much just proved that your an idiot.. (with facts and simple logic)

I'm sure that picking on the newbie routine works out for ya every now and again.. But on the flipside..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvft9Dd8S0w

In short Steve maybe I'm not your avergae newbie? LOL This whole boating message board thing isn't exactly new to me. Using your post count as some sort've online muscle though? (qualifying opinions with a post count? WTF?) Weak Steve... Just weak.

RD
RD,
As we say down South, you are trying to push water uphill.
You are wrong and you can't admit it. Your ego is getting in the way of your common sense (and you seem like a smart guy), but that's OK. Prattle on if it makes you feel better. Peace out.
Check out my video www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7bGwMMXUFc You'll notice I'm actually in mine.
Best Regards,
Steve

Last edited by Steve Zuckerman; 10-22-2009 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:26 AM
  #48  
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Ok Steve you are correct. I am wrong, the laws of math and physics do not apply here. Both boats are not tunnels with center pods. And clearly the tunnel of an Mti represents the difference between a Thor and a stoker.. As well your extensive post count clearly qualifies your opinion more so then a lowly <gasp> newbie. On top of which it is my ego that is blinding the from the truth in the whole matter. As well your incessant harassment of me in this thread even after I made two somewhat apollogetic posts for even bringing it up has no bearing in my responses... Scratch that unprovoked attacks on you and your abillity to see what is plain as day in front of you. Finally I will admit your extensive career drag racing outboards somehow does make you a quantifiable expert on anything relating to boats, water, hatch rams, and unsanctioned speed records. There now I have admitted fault on all acounts.

Please accept my sincerest appologies for the misunderstanding.

We good now?

RD


RD

Last edited by RiverDave; 10-22-2009 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:10 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by RiverDave
Ok Steve you are correct. I am wrong, the laws of math and physics do not apply here. Both boats are not tunnels with center pods. And clearly the tunnel of an Mti represents the difference between a Thor and a stoker.. As well your extensive post count clearly qualifies your opinion more so then a lowly <gasp> newbie. On top of which it is my ego that is blinding the from the truth in the whole matter. As well your incessant harassment of me in this thread even after I made two somewhat apollogetic posts for even bringing it up has no bearing in my responses... Scratch that unprovoked attacks on you and your abillity to see what is plain as day in front of you. Finally I will admit your extensive career drag racing outboards somehow does make you a quantifiable expert on anything relating to boats, water, hatch rams, and unsanctioned speed records. There now I have admitted fault on all acounts.

Please accept my sincerest appologies for the misunderstanding.

We good now?

RD


RD
Dave,
You obviously have a degree of expertise on boats. I know a little about them too. Despite your obviously and overtly sarcastic reply, yes we are good.
In your professional opinion, was my boat a cat? I am curious.
Steve
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:09 AM
  #50  
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I would like too thank you all for the information research and concern of my hatch cover, I will look into it, but thats not why i put this post in here.

In the Rage I had an imco extreme drive with 1.37 gear and a b1 30 lab finish, the best i got the boat to go was 115 @ 7000 on the chip. The drive height was standard and the boat was a handful, I know if i would have changed the drive height and prop it would have been much faster and handle better, but this boat was just too see how this combo would work in a boat, it seems to work well.

The turbo are GT 47s, in a perfect world they are good for about 12 too 1400 hp each at full boost. Its has and air too water inter cooler that is good too about 3000hp.

The turbos seem too be ez on the the drive, It never broke the imco in the Rage but it did start too twist the output shaft.

As far as price you should call George @ turbo tech 253-475-8319 nice guy very helpful and does very nice work.
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