Oil temp sender
 

Does anyone know where I can install a oil temp sender on a 500efi? I noticed there's a 1/4" hex plug in the bottom of the remote housing & in the block adapter. Could one of these be drilled & tapped or is there somewhere already prepped? There's already a wire in the harness (brown/white) to the gauges, but engine side is not hooked to anything, so I assume it's not a required part of the engine electronic system, or am I missing something? Mercruiserparts.com shows a sender for this motor, but no location on the drawings.

On my 502 Mpi, I put my oil temp sender in the port right above the relocator. (where the stock pressure sender is) I relocated the pressure gauge sender to a t that I added on the bellhousing port right behind the intake manifold (where the pressure alarm sender is) Eddie young said to do it that way cause the port above the relocator will give the most accurate temp reading for the oil re entering the motor after the cooler

Randy,
On some of the newer boats that did not come with Oil Temp gauges, the brown/white wire is used for the drive trim gauge. If it is not hooked up on your boat, I am guessing it came with a mechanical trim indicator and the wire would be great to use for your new gauge.

I think the previous owner removed the oil temp gauge for a depth finder. I added a hole, the wire is right there with connectors & all already on it. The wire is just hanging behind the ecu. I ordered a 1/4" sender & gauge from Gaffrig, but the sender looks more like 3/8" or 1/2" threads & about 3/4" deep. Now I need to find a spot for it.
Ya, boat has mech trim. The Merc manual has wiring diagram & shows the wire as oil temp, not trim.

So added the oil temp gauge & sender (spare port just in front of adapter on the block) & oil looks in line @ 160~180 degrees 40~45 psi. It takes some time warm up but stays consistent once there. My water temp is 100~110 & 20~ish psi. I'm running no thermostat (per Whipple direction). My thought is the water too cold causing a little condensation in the valve covers. Should I add some more breather or put a thermostat back in the water? breather on stb side now, pcv on port. I'm scared to add thermostat against Whipple direction, they say steam pockets form & poof goes the head gasket.

Keith Eicket and Hardin Marine both have some very nice billet oil thermostat's that would do the job up here in Utah's colder waters, they come in ethier 180 deg. or 210 deg.

I used the 180 deg. on my old 28 heat that had a blown 509 with know thermostat, my water temp also would never go above 110 but the oil would run between 170 and 190 at 3000 and 200 at 3500 to 4000 rpm's and 210-220 at full throttle and never had any milk under the valve covers. I got my oil temp reading on the return side of the oil thermostat because I wanted to see the oil temp that was going back to the bearings.
John

is this the one your ran?

http://www.keitheickert.com/detail.aspx?ID=1036

if so, how did you plumb it?

That's the one, I made an aluminum mount and bolted it to the back of head but it can be mounted on the transom with the two bolt holes, I plumbed it like the instructions said, all it does is bypass the oil cooler until the oil gets hot enough. My engine was a MKIV block and it had a Merc. oil filter adapter on it but the MKV and MKVI blocks have the the ports on the block. I used #12 AN fitting and hose.

Some will say that 180 is to cold and it might be but that motor made 865 HP on the dyno and is 13 years old has 390 hours on it and is still going strong today.

The 180 and the 210 are the same unit just a different thermostat inside but the 210 is what they recommend for engine oil temp.
John

The HP500 has a thermostat in the stock filter adapter, I believe it's 165*. Did your Heat have a stock thermostat & if so did you just remove? Did your water temp go up as well & did you run a thermostat on the water? The more I read, the more this sounds like the anwer, but I don't want to spend too much $$$ to get 30* if I can just change the thermostat on the stock adapter.

I used a cross over system with no water thermostat because that is what Paul Paff and Teauges Marine both recommended for a blown motor to help keep the heads cooler and to keep steam pockets from forming in the combustion chamber cooling passages. My oil cooler did not have a thermostat, I did not know that the HP500 already had an oil thermostat, I know my 600sci has one but not sure what temp it is. Have you called merc. racing to see if they have a higher temp themostat?

I think I know your old boat, guys name is Tim if I remember correct, very fast (I think he's the only boat to pass me, lol!).
I called Merc, they do not have another stat for the stock, so guess I'll be looking into aftermarket, I'd like to just find a pad adapter with one built in like the stock so I don't have to re-pipe everything.

One more thing that might be causing some milk under the valve covers is 20 psi of water could be pushing alittle water past the gaskets or maybe just to much flow, I alway ran about 15 psi at full throttle and about 8- 10 at cruise. The owner of my old boat installed an imco lower on the drive and it raised the water pressure up to the low 20's and he is now getting milk under the valve covers at wide open and 22 psi but it will burn it back off at cruise which is now 15psi. He is going to install a 15 psi relief valve just past the water pump which we will be tring out on the the 24th weekend. Just something else to think about.

I sold my old boat to friend in Price so don't think that is the same boat that you saw, it was a 1998 and I sold it last fall.

I pressure tested w/ 20 psi air & no leaks. Whipple actually recommends 25-30 psi water WOT. I get about the 10-15 @ cruise & 15-20~@ WOT. I've played w/ the restrictor in the therm housing & it doesn't change much pressure. I have flow restricted w/ 5/8" washer. I may remove that. The head gaskets are cometics (not stock) & I don't think that is the issue & it doesn't make a drop in the pan. I'm going to call Whipple today to see about the oil temp/water temp thing. I'm also gonna try the cheap oil cap breathers to see if that helps. I have breather on stb, pcv on port, but they are small. We just did a 565/Whipple (carb) on a Magic & his temps, pressures are nearly identical, maybe even cooler (giant oil cooler, no thermostat) He has the Dart alum heads & valve covers w/ huge breathers. He has no condensation.
The old oil filter was quite plugged up. That probably warmed my oil some. I don't think I ever looked under the caps. New motor made me paranoid & now I look at everything everytime I go out. Maybe it's always had condensation. I also never had a oil temp gauge, so not much prior data.

25-30 in the block sounds a bit high for the block pressure but about right for the inner cooler, Dustin knows his s**t so I would do what ever he tells you. Good luck and let us know what you find out.
John

Haven't heard back from Dustin yet, but I talked to Teague. They say I'm right on the money w/ temps. 160-180 oil & 100-110 water is what they run on their Whipple engines, no thermostats. He also said that a little condensation is normal, they see it too on there stuff. I have nothing to worry about & run it, as long as I keep tabs on the pan. I know they build ALOT of SC motors & know their s**t so that eases my mind a bit. I'll let you know what Whipples opinion is. Maybe everyone else doesn't look right after a run, or they would see the same.

Your probably right, when I first built that motor I would always stop a listen to the motor after a hard run to make sure parts weren't tying to change places but after a year or two I didn't worry about it to much.

Tim's boat was one of my past builds. R-Tech Supercooled 548ci. That boat had passed quite a few boats in its time however the power package has been broken up and is going into a smaller boat :eek:

I personally build and set them all up for 25-30 psi at WOT thru restrictor plates and/or Merc pressure relief valves along with rear manifold bleed offs on the crossover setups; blown or natural.

Tim's boat runs/ran 25-30 psi at WOT and not a sign of condensation with a 3"x21" cooler and 190* Mocal thermostat.

I set the Hustler Slingshot 1000hp Whipple motors up to run 25 psi with “very” large Hardin thermo controlled coolers and no sign of condensation.

Jon's (Desert Rage) runs 25 psi and no condensation.

(BTW, I think all three of those passed you :drink:)

Also, I set my personal motors to run 25-30lbs and I have no condensation as well. I also run stock Merc HP thermostats and my oil return is always 180-190, 220-240 pan.

Not sure where Teague is coming from on their statement??? Water under the valve covers makes for rusty guides, rocker studs and pushrods at times.

It is critical that you take your time and be very methodical when sealing the Whipple intakes around the water ports (the gaskets vary substantially from brand to brand here). I’m sure your builder did this. Hopefully you installed Cometic head gaskets or that will certainly be a point of interest as well.

Your post cooled oil temp sounds good. If you’re seeing 180* where your sensing then you’ll be ~220* in the pan which is enough to remove moisture. Shoot the pan with an infrared gun after a hard run, you’ll probably see 230*.

Is the cam stock? Reversion can be a cause as well.
See the attached Whipple pdf. Water, Water, Water!

Just some thoughts… Hope it helps :drink:
Dave

Good info Dave. I have the Whipple manual & saw that. Gaskets, seals, etc. are all what you mentioned & my builder was VERY meticulous (they are good friends from H.S. & I hang around the shop & have been boating w/ them since 13 yrs old). I talked to Dustin & he also mentioned the restrictor. I have 3/4" hole now, I"ll try 5/8". He mentioned breathers may help too. My water gauge doesn't start till 100*, so water may actually be 80-90 idling causing buildup of moisture. Dustin mentioned the difference in temp (oil/water) is probably the cause, not the temps themselves. I'm not talking mad milk, just enough to see & irritate me.
I don't know if the location I measure oil is return or supply, maybe someone can shed light on that (it's port just in front of the adapter on the block, previously just plugged off).
Yeah, I got passed by the 388, but waves were huge. Jon was running with us & there were a couple Flames passing us too. Jon had a light load, I had 6 people & 32p prop. No excuses or bragging, we were all having a good time on a crowded lake. Tim kept up until he evened out the load by putting a few half naked drunk chicks on my boat. He was faster then, but I feel I won!:drink:
BTW, both Whipple & Teague agreed heat is the enemy w/ blower motors & they do not suggest I heat up the oil any more.
They both say 160~180* is perfect, water should never exceed 120*
I'll take a temp gun to the poker run this weekend & see what the pan reads. I'll try to get a smaller restrictor by then if I find time.

On my closed cooled motor... antifreeze temp inside the block stays a constant 140 deg when running, and goes up to 152 deg at idle. Oil temp is a consistant 180-190 deg.
In my case...water pressure obviously is not an issue being that it just is a measure of water flow across the heat exchanger, but water pressure is aproximately 42 psi at WOT.. speed is 100 mph +/-

Chris

Hey Chris,
Just curious, did you upgrade the heat exchanger? I did a 496HO whipple upgrade and installed the large Sendure HE and it struggled to keep up with the heat transfer.
Your temps look great!

Good to hear on the gaskets 90mph.
Your sensor location is post cooled as are most Merc setups. The pan will read much hotter.
Is the milk worse in the early spring. There is a large delta of temp when the water is 40* however I've still never seen this on any of my builds here in the same environment.

Yes, PV can get very rough at times! I was there that day but never saw you I don't think. There was another Flame that I saw there but don't know who it was.

Unless you can run 105 there at our 5000 foot pond you won't be keeping up with the 388 no matter what the water is like :cool-smiley-011: Jason's real good at making you think you can keep up :drink:

Also, not sure the health of Tim's motor the past year or two but it was a consistent 93mph boat at the same lake right after I did a refresh on it. Sounds like it slowed way down if it was just even. I do know he was having some ECU and fuel issues that I'm looking at currently for the new owner of the motor.

Someday Jon might think about supercharging :evilb: but I would put my money on that natural 25 against any other 25 natural around our parts :)

You guys have fun and be safe this weekend at Utah Lake. I would love to be there as the water is seemingly pretty fast but unfortunately I'll be in Reno/Tahoe for daughter's softball :(

Dave

That's the thing, the moisture is inconsistant. @ PV that day, it was bad in the morning & by the time we left, after running hard to keep up w/ Jon & being passed by the big boys, it was pretty clean. Other days it's non-existant, other days it's there. I've also changed oil to Valvoline VR1. That made some difference compared to cheaper stuff (cheap because I changed every 3-5 hrs until I found my problem). I think it depends on idle time/hammer time & the water temp, lots of variables I haven't kept good track off. I replaced the t-stat restrictor last night w/ a 5/8" hole from 3/4". I don't see 1/8" making that much diff, we'll see Saturday.

Tim was probably running 85-90 that day when we evened the load. I've seen 82-83 any day there, 84 personal best, but I'm only turning 5100 w/ my 32, lots left.

My 28p ran 5700 @ Starvation a couple weeks ago, but over revs @ 4500'. I didn't have my GPS on, but I'm sure I was in the 80's w/ bow cover off. I was grinning ear to ear @ that elevation (5700') I had a hard time keeping my sunglasses attached:drink:.

Seems to make LOTS more power around 5500! I think a 30 is what I need, should get me to 5400-5600 @ Utah, 86-87mph. That's fast enough for a daily driver.

I've wanted a chance to run hard @ Havasu, but I always have too many people & too much in the cooler. 88 @ 5300 was the best on the Columbia before the new motor & labbed prop. I should top 90 now.

Dave,
We are using the stock heat exchanger so far. We removed the innercooler water line off the stock system, and opened up the exhaust restrictors so that we could get maximum flow. The innercooler has its own pickup and strainer now, which dropped my intake temps from about 145 deg on a hot day... down to around 90-95 deg.

Chris

The 5/8 vs 3/4 will restrict your water by 30%. You should see a pressure increase.
The 5/8 seems to work well on most setups but pickup types change everything as well.

How far is Starvation time wise from SLC?

Great intake temps! Are you running the MOAC?

Stock Merc 600sci innercooler.. outfitted with Whipple's AN-12 fittings in and out as compared to the stock 1/4 inch fittings. In stock configuration, the innercooler lines were necked down so as to not steal very much water from the heat exchanger. The innercooler line fed off a fitting on the power stearing cooler. Overall, the stock system was a joke... but then it was only making 589 horsepower out of a supercharged 502.

Chris

It's a little over 2 hrs. Just outside Duchesne or about 30 min past Strawberry, hour past Deer Creek. It's one of my favorites, one of the few lakes you can park the RV on the beach & leave the boat in the water.

30% Would get me right on the money 25lbs. My pickup is a little different than others I've seen. It's a 1 1/4" hole right on the pad running surface w/ a little lip that directs water up rather than the transom types others use. It seems to work well though. I've added a strainer, but that didn't affect my pressure. It's kinda nice that the impeller rarely starts dry since the strainer has water in it to start + it's a nice place to run the hose or fill 4 gallons antifreeze for winter.

Kinda funny, I was looking through the Whipple manual & it's dated Dec. 2002 & calls for 30min, 40max lbs. Those #'s have obviously changed, 40 sounds dangerous!

Chris,

When seeing oil temp range = or < 190F have you been running at WOT longer than 15 min? Sorry if that is a dumb question in your case but is pertinent to my situation. What size oil cooler are you running?

I ran yesterday @ Utah with the 5/8" restrictor. Lake temp is about 78-80*, air 90-95*. I saw my temp go +20-30* higher than I've seen in the past, near 130* on short WOT runs. It came down quickly & never rang the alarm, but seemed a little scary. Oil stayed the usual 160-180*. I still saw some condensation in valve covers & I'm at a loss. As always, pan looks great. I leave oil caps off after trailering, & by the next time out it clears up except tiny amounts in the low valleys, so it appears it eventually evaporates. Do any of you guys look inside your valve covers after a run? I'm thinking of resuming the 3/4" restrictor now that the water/air are peak summer temp to keep temps lower. I also saw my wp spike to 30-32 on 1 WOT run, but usually stayed around 20-25. Temps all around under the hatch seemed warmer than usual, but not dangerously hot. I could still rest my hand on headers or any other part. Any ideas? Do I maybe need more breather? Are you guys seeing 20*+ warmer water temps this time of year?