Sound like the real problem is with boats that run at 64 74 84 and 94 mph. They are too fast for the lower class and too fast for the class they are supposed to race in. Whatever you build, make sure it's speed ends with a 9 not a 4 and you'll be fine.

I like the idea of the mailer. Send out a list of all boats to all racers and have them place the boats in each class. Majority
rules.

I think Bandit is retiring, and Kurt will be in a different smaller cat for 2003.

Shawn, that's the issue at hand. If we go by absulute top speed, then you would be in P1, if we use a racing lap speed, you would be in P2 racing and you would be up against the 41 Apache, firewater. You'll have your hands full in P2. As long as you didn't go over 99 during the race, your fine. However, what happens in a calm race? Do you change classes and loose points in your class or just pick the class that you fits based on water the series of conditions?

If we use the GPS then in a calm race, you might need to hold back to stay under 99. So what happens if 4 boats are all holding back at 99mph? Side by side racing and the guy who gets around the course the best wins.

The problem with GPS is the delay. The speed reading has a delay of a few seconds.

has anyone purposed running a qualifing heat, i think this would help and create a little boat testing time. top qualifers recieve lane choice, if qualifing speed is surpassed by 3 mph DQ. just a idea.

p class in a nutshell is basically bracket racing, and the key to winning bracket racing is sandbagging,forget about winning and just have a good time

Holding back or "sandbagging" is not racing.If thats the way people are going to "race" in the P Classes, do away with the bracket format. Establish a simple set of easy to enforce rules taking into consideration hull type,hull length and horsepower.
Under the current format, the way to win is to have the biggest boat in the class bracket and run just SLOW enough not to break out......is that fun?Just my opinion.

It goes back to almost everyone moving up 1 class so it will be impossable to break out wether you are in calm or rough.
Another way might be take 1-2 boats in each class that most represants that class and fill everyone else in around them based on the boat not the skill of the crew.
Randy

Buy the wat I dont like the term bracket racing when it comes to boats. Its refered to much as bracket racing with cars were its all about timeing to win and not all out racing.Sandbaging in car racing is fine because it doesant matter its all about time.

PLEASE LISTEN,STEP UP ONE CLASS AND FORGET ABOUT GPS AND AVERAGE LAP SPEED!!
Randy

I STILL THINK P- SINGLE / TWIN FOR P-4 AND P-5 WOULD CLOSE THE GAP.

Any thoughts about a PX class?

Shawn, Px was a waste in APBA with 1-2 boats max.At a divisional race I dont think you will see any boats of that calibor.No more classes Bruce ,thats my opinion.
I would like to see 2 seprate races P5 and P4 first race and P3,P2 and P1 in the second race. The first race should take 30-45min and the second race would have to be ready to roll.It would be better viewing for fans.
Randy

it would be better for the fans not to mention the sponsors if you had real race boats instead of pleasure boats your giving a lot of people the idea this is a race like the old days what b.s.:puppy: :puppy: :puppy: :puppy:

This is as real as it gets my friend.Why dont you try it or dont you have the balls.My guess is you dont even have a drivers license and your only about 12 years old playing on your parants computor.Is that why you wont say who you are?If you dont like raceing then why do you spend so much time bashing everything?
Randy

you would cry no matter what thats how you lost your sponser as for real sonny boy you will see what real is at the first race money talks bull**** walks so keep talking and walkin:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Snglestack

1. You going to race f1 this year???
2. You a truck driver.???

Thanks .....Good luck

This is a good topic. My boat with big props will run well over 100. But a school bus has better accelaration. I don't think I would have a chance in p1 against a 100mph inboard. I think I would be comprtive in p2 with smaller props. So what be this best thing to do in this case?





Shawn: your thinking about outboards? I'm suprised Say it aint so Michael:eek: :eek:

MM,What kind,size and power do you have?If you put on your race props and ran under 100mph you would be in P2 in my book.Top speed of the boat does not mean no gas,biggest prop,Kilo set up and the best speed the boat has ever done in the middel of the winter going down stream in a flood tide.JUST BE HONEST WITH TOP SPEED WITH 1/2 TANK OF FUEL AND PROPER PROP SELECTION.
Randy

Randy I have a 30ft motion with 300pms. I would most likey need to drop down 2-4in pitch to get decent responce from my set up. I don't want to run against 110mph inboards with more top speed and torque off the turns.
I guess the question is how to decide classes?
I did see a similar set up in point pleasent a couple of years ago in p2. So most likey no problem.
Thanks Michael:D

I think you would be fine in P2. In fact you'll have you hands full in that class. For laughs take a look at the speeds for the world champs on the ABPA site. The supercats top overall speed was only 95.

The triple OB cats ran in the mid 80s.

Randy has it right. Just be honest and use your race speed to come up with your bracket.

If you run P2, how do you feel about not breaking out over 100 in a calm bay race should we have one?

OK guys, now you really have me confused.

[ Well Shawn I would agree with Ryan that a 32 with triples should run well over 100mph.But lets say it doesant and you have a inspector run with you at full speed and they determan that your RPMs are maxed with the props you have.Then you do belong in P2.But if Ryan has to run P2 in his 24 with twins how good would you feel beeting him.
Randy ]

Randy, you stated that I should almost be embaressed to run a 32 Skater with o/bs in P2 against a 24 with o/bs. However. the owner of the boat said it would run right at 100 with 28 and 30 inch props. I suspect Michaels Motion will do the same, once again, we might have real racing.

I had decided NOT to buy this boat as its foolish to try to run your P1/PX unlimited classs unless you run 130 or so as there are a couple of ex race boats that most likely will make the races.

We were going to buy an old boat just to race so we don't destroy our weekend boats, but will not unless we can run in a class with an upper speed limit. We would set the boat up to run at the max for the class.

Either there is some "ruling" that makes us take an official out and prove that we do not exceed the upper limit of the class, or its back to the drawing board on boat selection.

Michael, yeah we were looking at an old race boat just for this series and it has trip 2.5s. Like you, it probably won't get out of its own way with the props that make it run over 100 as its an old style boat that the owner said the fastets he ever ran the boat was 106mph with the 30 and 32" props.

Michael, if they let you or I race in P2, how long do you think it will be before they kick us up to P1 after we win a race or two?

I don't want to own an extra boat that's not competitive and will take 2 years to sell. I do not want to beat up my Spectre plus, it runs 102 in perfect conditions, so its P1 all over again.

HELP

Shawn

Ron P I agree with you, there a lot of good equipment that can run in p2. I really don't care if win a race. I just want to be in the running.I also agree if a boat breaks out it should be disqualifyed. After all this is for fun, everybody is trying to have a good time! I just want it to fair for everybody.
Michael

Guys, just my thoughts..

I think you would be fine in P-2. team RELENTLESS runs P-2 in a 32 Skater w/ twin approx. 640's, and I believe they are capable of over 100 in flat water. But truthfully, do you really think that any of you are gonna push those cats over the edge in race conditions? I dont think so. On the other hand, a 24 Skater cabable of 100 going against a 32 Skater in the same class is rediculous and suicidal. Its the same problem we have down the line. A 28 V single cabable of 80 goin against a 38V twin in rough seas is just not fair. in calm water it would be the other way around. But who wants to race in calm water???
NOT ME.

So what do we do????? damn if I know

Relentless is for sure in the wrong class! a 32 Skater with 640's should run about 120. Shawn an open cockpit 32 set up will run around 110. My 24 Skater with 200's is running 96 in Flat water. MMWalters boat has seen 109. Besides hardley any one ever races P1. Do you think it is fair that I should race my boat in P2? The APBA rules are based on TOP SPEED that's why they placed me in my class, but there are several questionable boats in other classes. I don't understand how someone would want to race against another boat that they know will never beat them. THATS NOT A RACE. Why can't guys be honest and fair about the class they race in?

Ryan...

Unfortunately your in a difficult scenerio. Very fast Small boat. It is real hard to place you in any of the current P classes especially in Ocean conditions. If you were in the lakes or rivers, you would probably compete in P-2 or P-1 for that matter. But unfortunately, we are in the ocean most of the time. And no, its not fair but what can we do without adding more classes???

It's easy start buy running boats in the PROPER class based on top speed don't round up or down 1 class.

Im all for that. I know I will be in the right class. But where do you think that you would fit in and be competitve in a 24 skater?

Im not 100 percent sure about RELENTLESS but I do know they are cabable of 100 plus.

To be honest with you, I'll runn p2 because thats the class my boat fits in. I am saying that guys shouldn't sandbag to win. I know that there is probably only 1 or 2 races a year that will suit my boat but if it's rough it doesn't matter what class I am in, I can't run fast safely.

Ryan I said it before you are a P3 boat.Be honest and tell how fast you can run in the ocean with 4 footers? We should base the classes on top speed in the ocean with 4-5 foot waves.Top speed in the bay doesant mean ****.That one race a year should not determine the class for the year.If we go ocean top speed it reduces the size of the boat issue.:eek: I think Im on to something here.
Dont let me decide weather you buy a boat or not to race and dont forget I have nothing to do with placing boats officialy in any class.If OPA would like me to help them do that I think I am pretty fair but thats up to them to make the big dissions.
Randy

Randy...WAZZZZZZZup

I agree with you to a point. We should set the classes based on top speed in ocean conditions. How do you propose to go about classifying the boats? Based on the teams input or the officials ?

If you set the speed in 4 footers then I'll run P4.

OK guys,

Let's leave class placement up to the tech guys. As you're getting inspected you give them the info required to do a theoretical top speed calculation. The prop size that you give them would be the one you MUST use in the race. If your top speed is 2-3 mph over the class you could prop down. If your calculated top speed is say 4-5 or more mph over minimum class speed you're stuck in that class unless you demonstrate that the boats actual speed is slower.
At the conclusion of the race, as soon as you are crained out or trailered out, an inspector applies a tamper proof mark to the prop. You would then have 1/2 hour (more or less) to present that prop to have the pitch measured. The time would vary depending upon site factors that I am not aware of.
I feel that lap speed won't work. Placement in class according to water conditions isn't going to work. GPS's in the boats only tell how fast a boat is going, not how fast it could go.
If we continue to allow sandbagging and gps racing we will not be successful and therefore not have any fun.

raynman

Ok guys follow me on this.Ocean top speed for P5 would be 60mph P4 ,70mph and so on.At least factor it in when placing a boat in class to compansate for size of boat.
Randy

I did not mean to opean up a hornets here, I just wanted to get some input. Just want race a little and have some fun.

Ryan; I want talk to you about some graphics for my boat email me or let me know your and I'll call

michael [email protected]
:chimp:

Michael email me at [email protected]

MM you didnt open up a hornets nest,that just how we talk hear in the racers roundup area.;)
Randy

Randy OK thats cool. With this cold and snow it feels like race season is two years away. Winter sucks:hammy:

MM I hear you its snowing hear also.The best way to beat the layoff is to play as many race tapes as possable thats what I do.The family cringes when they see me watching the same tapes over and over and over.I can pretty much tell you who wins know!
Randy

Re: Let me pick!!!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TYPHOON
[B]You tell me what kind of boat you have with what kind of power,top speed,rigging,expereance and length.And let me tell you what class.

**


Pantera, 28', 2002, Dyno-ed @648 hp Innovation, 5350 rpm, 82mph, Bravo XR, weight 5200
labbed prop 28-29, 15 1/4, Races 4 --Siemens-Bosch port fuel injected. What class?? MEOW-MEOW

HEY KITTEN...

Im gonna say P-4

see ya at the races

I dont know Mike...thats alot of talk for soemone who hasnt had too much experience in the high seas.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Kitten put that Pantara in P4 but Im suprised thats all it does with that kind of power.Bruce you should know better than me is that low?Are you sure on the weight or does that include the trailor ha ha ha
Randy:p